Executive presence is a learnable set of skills rather than an innate trait. Learn proven frameworks and strategies to help you build authentic influence, secure buy-in, and motivate teams without compromising values.
Learn more about executive presence in Mark’s Media Strategy for Policy and PR Cornell Certificate Program: https://ecornell.short.gy/4SNezG
Check out the Executive Master of Public Administration (EMPA) program at the Brooks School https://publicpolicy.cornell.edu/masters/mpa/empa/
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Is executive presence something you can learn or do you have to be born with it? And how can you build your personal brand and gain attention as a leader? In this Keynote, you will explore how to surface and strengthen your leadership traits so you can secure buy‑in for your ideas, attract funding to grow your business, or motivate your team — all without sacrificing your values or straying from your authentic self.
Join us for a conversation between Tom O’Toole, Executive Director of Public Affairs Programming in the MPA Program at Cornell University’s Brooks School of Public Policy, and Mark Bayer, Visiting Lecturer at the Brooks School and former U.S. Senate chief of staff. Together, they bring deep, real-world expertise in leadership, influence, and navigating high‑stakes environments.
You’ll discover powerful, proven, and practical ways to elevate your personal brand, expand your influence, and amplify your impact by transforming your executive presence.
What You'll Learn
Intro: Welcome to Cornell Keynotes. Today we're joined by Mark Bayer, visiting lecturer at Cornell's Brooks School of Public Policy and former US Senate Chief of Staff, alongside Tom O'Toole, Assistant Dean for Professional Education at the Brooks School. Together, they explore whether executive presence is an innate gift or a learnable skill.
Much of what they discuss connects to leadership development principles taught in Cornell's Executive Master of Public Administration program. Check the episode notes for more details. And now, here's our conversation with Cornell's Mark Baer and Tom O'Toole.
Tom O'Toole: So viewers, we'll take your questions in the chat.
In addition, we'll be asking for your participation in a few poll questions, so heads up for a QR code that'll appear momentarily
We rely heavily on the input of viewers like you in everything we do. So let's begin with some of those poll questions. What are some words that you might use to define [00:01:00] presence? So one to three words, thinking of things like charisma and vibes. And the second question, is executive presence something that's, that's built into your-- our personalities, or is it something that anyone can learn?
So we'll start out with those two poll questions, get back to them in just a moment. But Mark, first question, so as you know, we're living and working in a very adversarial, hyper-partisan political environment. How do you define executive presence? And from your perspective, from your experience, what seems to matter more these days, in terms of an engaging an audience or engaging your stakeholders?
Is it substance, is it style, or is that a false choice?
Mark Bayer: Yeah, it's a great question, Tom. When I think about substance, first of all, I think about technical expertise. You're a subject matter expert in the area that you have under your, area of responsibility. That's your substance.
And style is really how do you relate to others, how do you connect with people on a [00:02:00] human-to-human level. And I really see style as the gateway to engage on the substance. So you could know everything about a particular subject matter. You're responsible in your organization for this particular scientific or chemical process.
But you have trouble relating other-- to other people and communicating to other people in ways that they can hear and remember. And so that is the stylistic element. If you're in an executive role and you're really just a subject matter expert, it's really just focused on substance, then I would consider that person as having an executive position, but not having executive presence because they don't have the ability to really connect on a human-to-human level with others in ways that are comfortable and productive.
Tom O'Toole: So we got some great feedback from our viewers on the first poll question. So again, what are some words you might use to describe presence? I'm seeing confidence, charisma, energy, poise, aura, [00:03:00] storyteller. What's your reaction to that, Mark?
Mark Bayer: When you think about executive presence.
And, and storytelling often is a way to, to communicate effectively because we as humans are wired to process information as stories. So it's easier for our brain cognitively to grasp a story quickly and to remember it more than just data
Tom O'Toole: Yeah, so when I think about strong executive presence, I think about someone who projects strong clarity and tone.
So someone who, as, as you said, is a really good storyteller. In your mind, what are some of the key attributes of a professional with strong executive presence?
Mark Bayer: I think it goes back to me to the actual origin of the word executive. It comes from a Latin verb that really just means to follow.
We see it in, like, sequential or consecutive. It's the same word. It's the same verb, to follow. So when I think about executive presence, I think about, and having a strong executive presence, what makes someone, [00:04:00] some group want to follow you, not, like, begrudgingly. It's not just positional.
It relates to your presence, and a lot of the elements that, that people on the Zoom here, identified in the word cloud, you know, confidence and so forth. I also, for strong executive presence, kinda go back, 2,300 years to, to Aristotle, the Greek philosopher talking about how to be a leader, how to move an audience, and he talks about facts and data, the subject matter expertise or maybe the substance in our example.
He talks a lot about emotion in addition to that, and storytelling is a great way to use emotion in authentic, manners, to really go beyond just the facts and figures. And then the third piece of that from Aristotle's perspective, and I think is an important part for executive presence, is really the credibility of the person delivering the message, of the executive themselves.
Has that person had a track record of success? Do people feel confident in that person's ability to [00:05:00] achieve what the organization's setting out? I noticed that confidence was part of the word cloud also.
Tom O'Toole: So feedback from that second poll. Is executive presence something that's built into our personalities, a discipline anyone can learn, or something else entirely?
So 71%, a discipline anyone can learn. 27%, it's built-in, part of who we are. And then 2% said it's a mystical force that flows through the lucky ones among us. So your reaction to that.
Mark Bayer: Well, i'm really glad to see that so many, people think that it is something that you can learn, and I'm a really big believer in that.
I think it can be learned. I've taught that. I've seen it in action. I've seen people develop their executive presence that didn't necessarily have it in the beginning. And learning, sort of a methodology that I've developed , and bringing forward a lot of information that others have created, I really do believe it is something that can be learned.
And it really does focus a lot on the human aspects- of our interaction, say, in an organization [00:06:00] beyond just the subject matter that we're delivering, but it's the relatability. So sometimes I say, it's about humanity, not hierarchy in an organization
Tom O'Toole: so When we, we think about executive presence, a lot of time it's one of those things, like we know it when we see it,
can you share some examples where, strong executive presence was the key factor in driving policy change, so a lot of people are thinking about how to affect change these days, particularly through shaping or making policy.
What are some examples that come to your mind of where presence was really the key factor in driving policy change?
Mark Bayer: Yeah.
And I'm gonna give a few examples that draw on different elements of executive presence, so maybe even different piece of that, elements of that word cloud. I mean, the first political figure, that comes to mind for me is President Lyndon Johnson in the US.
And so if we kind of go back to the '60s, the mid '60s, President Kennedy in the US is assassinated. Vice President Johnson becomes president, and one of the things he is focused [00:07:00] on is passing the Civil Rights Act in 1964 and 1965. And it was a really difficult feat given the decision-makers in the Congress that were responsible for actually, getting the legislation through, getting the votes through Congress, and he was emphasizing and cajoling and really in some ways he was an intimidating factor.
He was six three. He was a big, physically a big man, and they called it actually the treatment, how he would get very close to these legislators who, you know, were chairs of these relevant committees, and he was an imposing figure. And he would be trying to encourage them, I guess, is the gentle way, persuade them that they should support the Civil Rights Act.
I also don't want people to feel like you have to look like a football player somewhere, to be able to have strong executive presence because I also think about Gandhi, and his executive presence. Clearly, no one would really consider Gandhi as an imposing figure [00:08:00] physically.
And yet he still had tremendous, executive presence and was able to achieve his goals, in different ways that didn't involve physically imposing, um, himself or using his physicality. Or even the Dalai Lama more recently, I don't think anyone would really consider him physically imposing, but yet people want to follow him.
People have-- feel a connection to him, and that is really getting to the essence of what executive presence is.
Tom O'Toole: So a lot of the organizations that, that we think about, public, private, nonprofit organizations, the organizations that our viewers might work for They tend to be very hierarchical organizations, where, you know, top performers in the organization might not necessarily be the ones in leadership roles.
So that being the case, how do emerging professionals build executive presence without having that formal authority?
Mark Bayer: It's a great question. And so how do you go about doing this [00:09:00] when, yeah, just as you say, you don't have the title, but you do wanna demonstrate leadership qualities, and you do aspire to move up in the organization.
And there's one way that I've found that, to be effective in that kind of situation, which is really just kind of volunteering to do, unglamorous work when a colleague, say, is overwhelmed with a task, and they don't have time, to do, say, make some calls to a venue where there's gonna be an event.
And maybe there are some late nights that are involved. And, you could look at your job description and see that whatever, they're working on falls outside your job description, and you're just gonna, go home and, that's gonna be the end of your day.
Meanwhile, close colleagues are gonna be sort of toiling away into the small hours of the night. And I would suggest, in those opportunities, ask if your colleagues need some help, "Would it be easy if I just took this one thing off your plate? Like, I drafted some talking points, so you can look at them," or, "I came up with some AI prompts that you could look [00:10:00] at."
And maybe those things aren't strictly in your job description, but the overall message is kind of like, "Look, I want you to be successful. I want the organization to succeed, and I'm willing to, walk the walk. And I'm gonna help out, with some of these tasks, even when I don't necessarily have to."
I think that's a real way to demonstrate leadership when you're in an organization, and you don't have the formal title. But... And I will tell you that when you start to do those sorts of things, people in leadership roles start to notice, and they start to see you differently as a can-do person and somebody who is willing, to put the organization's priorities ahead for a time to get something done right.
And I think that's a good way to do it in an unthreatening way. I think your colleagues would see that as being helpful, not like you're grandstanding or brown-nosing or, any of these sort of negative things. I think they would, welcome that extra help.
And in the meantime, you're demonstrating this kind of leadership without having the [00:11:00] position.
Tom O'Toole: . How do we benchmark our executive presence so we can monitor, how we're doing?
Whether, it's growing, whether we're stagnating. Like How do we monitor that?
Mark Bayer: I worked at PricewaterhouseCoopers, after grad school, before I went back to the Hill for a second time, and I, I remember this partner saying, "Well, how do you know you're a leader?"
And she said, "Well, people start following you." You know, people start listening to you, and people start taking your guidance and your advice. There are ways to deliver that advice and that guidance and those thoughts, in ways that are non-threatening and helpful, even though you don't have a supervisory relationship, say, with someone.
Some things you might consider saying, "Well, you know, I've tried this or that in the situation we're talking about, and I found that it worked," or, you know, "One thing that I- one mistake that I made was I tried to do this, and it didn't work out very well, so I would suggest, like, if that's one of your options, I wouldn't do that."
Maybe kind of be a resource. What typically happens, and [00:12:00] I've seen this, is that then people start coming to you proactively, and asking for your help or your guidance, your advice on things. And that's where you could start to really see yourself getting some leadership momentum
Tom O'Toole: What research has been done to show how sort of your definition of executive presence or just generally accepted professional definitions of executive presence are actually driving, business outcomes?
Mark Bayer: That's an excellent question, and I think part of it goes to studies of emotion and feeling, and the fact that, I can make a presentation, I can deliver a lot of data.
What's really some of the research shows is that is essential, it's necessary, but it's not sufficient to really drive decision-making. What happens is when you can weave, say, and this is part of what you asked before, Tom, with storytelling, when you give a narrative, weave the data into a narrative that's [00:13:00] memorable, you start to trigger more emotion, and that emotion helps us as humans remember, the subject matter.
And if we're making decisions, we obviously need to r- remember the inputs to be able to drive, strong decisions. So there's been a lot of research. Robert Cialdini is, an emeritus professor at Arizona State University. He wrote a book called Influence, and he talks a lot about how to influence, as a leader, maybe as someone who's a peer, and these different principles that he studied both in, controlled research and then also actually in the jobs themselves, where he would go out and perform some of these jobs.
He's kind of recognized as sort of godfather of persuasion and influence. And so there's a lot of research that Cialdini has done, and the book Influence is one that I would highly recommend. And I think part of it when you get to presence is this recognition that The technical skills are not enough to [00:14:00] have executive presence.
They're part of it. The people that you're leading in your organization need to feel confident in your ability to do the job. Yes, that's the price to, to enter, to really have executive presence, however, I would argue that it brings forward the need for these human-to-human relatable, skills, that go beyond just facts and figures.
It's really this sort of how do you make people feel? Because for a leader really to thrive, people need to want to follow that person. And these other factors that I'm talking about can aid in that, when they're done authentically, of course, and honestly.
Tom O'Toole: How do you balance authenticity with executive presence? So first, can you go into more, about how do you understand authenticity, and how do you project it? Like, how is it connected to executive presence?
And then kinda how do you balance those two attributes?
Mark Bayer: I think part of authenticity is recognizing what you know and what you don't know. Not trying to [00:15:00] pretend that, you have all the answers necessarily. A leader shouldn't just proclaim things are the way they are without recognizing that people may have questions.
People may be wondering certain things. People may have objections, to whatever the change is. So say a leader, calls an all-hands meeting, and is gonna introduce some new policy. Well, change provokes and triggers anxiety sometimes, uncertainty, dread. Some people might be happy with the change.
And I think that authenticity comes from acknowledging that those feelings are actually there, and addressing that proactively. And it shows that you are listening to your people, to the team, to the people that you're leading, that you understand them. It's a human-to-human kind of thing.
Some people might be wondering, "What does this mean for this department?" And being authentic and say, "Look, at this point, this is what our plan is," is a big part of that authentic aspect of it, is to [00:16:00] always kind of think, "Well, you know, yes, I'm a... How do I connect on a human level beyond just the hierarchical, well, we're gonna make this change,"
we're gonna move some things around the org chart. But there are actual humans that are gonna be impacted. So how do you address their emotions and their feelings?
Tom O'Toole: So Mark, in your experience, what are some of the biggest mistakes that executives make, when trying to project, authority and confidence and expertise?
Mark Bayer: Yeah, and this backfires so badly too. I think in short, it's sort of a do you know who I am syndrome.
It's of this attitude that others should be deferential to you,, that success is as a result of your work and your work alone, that you are this indispensable figure. And I think people sense that, and it's a mistake because to have executive presence, you wanna connect with your people, with your colleagues, with your [00:17:00] team.
And when you project this kind of, well, you know, it's all about me kind of thing, I'm this special, level. I don't eat with the people in my team, in my organization. I don't really interact with them. Then what you're doing is you're disconnecting from them, and so you're doing the opposite of really what an executive presence, someone who is skilled at executive presence should be doing.
When I worked on Capitol Hill, one of the things that we did in final round interviews is when people, candidates would come in, and we would do the interview. And of course, the boss was part of that final round, and so his schedule was such that the candidates coming in would typically have to wait before the meeting started 'cause we were working on something else and things come up and so forth.
So the candidate would be sitting in the front room with a receptionist. And after we did the interview, and the person left, we would call the receptionist in, and we would ask, "How did they treat you? How did the candidate treat you? Do they seem impatient? Were they rude? Were they just polite?"
And that [00:18:00] had an input into our decision. Yeah, we asked the person, all these other questions about, , how they would handle this situation, and what, what did they do when, when that happened on their resume. And we wanted to know on a human-to-human level, like were they nice?
You know, did they interact in a way that was courteous with someone who ostensibly had less power than they did?
Tom O'Toole: As someone grows within an organization and takes on more senior responsibilities, how can they intentionally evolve their executive presence and reshape how others perceive them, especially when they've outgrown the role that people are used to seeing them in?
Mark Bayer: I think the short answer is gradually. You don't show up the next day, dressed completely different. You don't all of a sudden develop some other way of talking that people are going to see because there you're, again, you're signaling that you're different.
The key to really having executive presence is to show how you're the same. [00:19:00] Yes, you are gonna have to make hard decisions, and you are gonna have responsibilities that you didn't have before for a larger, for the enterprise or a business unit or a team. You don't wanna lose, though, this humanity mindset, is that, yes, hierarchically, you're now in a different higher level.
But you're still a human. I mean, you, you need your people to want to follow you, That's what we talked about earlier, and that's really the crux of being an executive, having executive presence. And they're not gonna just want to follow you because of the hierarchical spot you are in the org chart.
They may have to, but that really-- Then you're in the executive position category, not the executive presence category that we wanna be in.
Tom O'Toole: So two responses to that last question we asked, from Jamie. Biggest challenge, after years of volunteering for extra work, making life easy on executives, grounding data and storytelling, become highly sought after within the [00:20:00] organization, kept in a box at the same time, led me to being, me being a doormat versus experienced career growth.
Uh, Samantha, demonstrating presence when trying to support, defend a position, or express a concern among other leaders without coming across as challenging or domineering. Your reaction to that?
Mark Bayer: In the first one, that's a failure, I would say, of leadership, of people, who aren't recognizing your value.
And sometimes that failure can lead, someone to leave a job, and of course, doing that as with this reputation, which is a positive one, that you would carry with you, your brand really, and that carries you out throughout your career. Understanding it can be a very difficult situation. There are lots of permutations. The other question beyond the one about being in a box. Um, oh, raising objections, but not, not seeming...
Tom O'Toole: not coming across as threatening-
Mark Bayer: Yeah. It was funny 'cause at various times when I was in this sort of situation, I would use the word perhaps, and it kind of felt natural, and it was [00:21:00] received by other people naturally, not like it was some stilted language. And I would say, "Perhaps, we should try this," or, "You know, that's really interesting.
Maybe this would work." And I think that if you ask a question, questions generally are very engaging, like from a cognitive neurological standpoint. Like when you phrase something in a question. I mean, there is a little art towards it. You don't want the listener to think, well, maybe we should try this, like it's obvious.
But more genuine presentation of a suggestion in a question or it, and it could lead to a beginning. Well, I was trying this other thing once, and it kind of worked. Or that reminds me of a time when we did something similar, and it, it worked out very well. Maybe you wanna try it again now. Sometimes people will caveat, and I think there's a, a point beyond which you don't wanna go as far as a caveat.
Well, I might be wrong, but, I think that's too strong. But saying like, "Look, I've looked at this a little bit. Just curious what others think if we did this."
Tom O'Toole: - Thinking about [00:22:00] this at the level of politics or policy or, or from those dimensions, can you give examples where lack of executive presence actually killed what would have otherwise been a strong policy or program?
Mark Bayer: Yes.
And so as a political person and as a Massachusetts native, you know, immersed in the politics of the great state of Massachusetts, I would say that what reminds me when, when you ask that question, Tom, it reminds me of a situation in the '70s. I was very young then, but,, I was still exposed to the politics in the state.
And in the '70s, Massachusetts had a governor named Michael Dukakis. Mike Dukakis, as some people might real-remember, was the Democratic nominee for president in 1988. And before that, he was governor of Massachusetts, and actually, during that, he was governor of Massachusetts. In any case, he ran, he won, and then when he was running his re-election campaign, this is in the kind of mid-'70s, .
he had a primary challenger, and the primary challenger, and so another Democratic candidate, was much [00:23:00] more conservative than Mike Dukakis was. So typically in a primary, the people who are voting are more progressive and, that kind of wing of the party or more conservative, whatever party you're talking about.
They usually are on the edges of the spectrum ideologically or politically in their own party. And so you would have expected in a primary Mike Dukakis, liberal governor, liberal candidate, would have won. But, you know, he got a lot of criticism during that campaign for being out of touch, for being aloof, for being an elitist, for being a technocrat.
Like those are all ways of saying, "He is not like us... He's not emotional. He doesn't have that kind of relatability." And Ed King beat him, in the primary, and then Ed King became governor. For a term. Even though he was more conservative politically, I think Dukakis had like a likability problem.
He also raised taxes or supported a tax increase when he said he wouldn't, but that's on the substance. And on top of that, he did get a lot of criticism, which he [00:24:00] then addressed when he ran for re-election against King. So he spent like four years really thinking about what happened , and admitting actually that he wasn't always in touch with that kind of, connected or had those kind of emotions, and showed those things.
And I'm not talking about like crying or laughing all the time. I'm just talking about understanding on a human-to-human level, how to, talk to people and show curiosity. And so Dukakis then beat King and became governor again after losing, and I think that was a big aha moment for a lot of politicians.
Tom O'Toole: So many of our viewers might be dealing with crises in their organizations right now, in their communities. It seems to be a time for crisis. So when a crisis emerges, I imagine that executive presence might change. And so this is a right tool for the job sort of question. How does executive presence change, when you're projecting presence in a crisis versus when you're projecting presence to develop a long-term strategy?
Should leaders [00:25:00] change, adapt their presence for different audiences?
Mark Bayer: I Would think about presence as really showing your humanity. And so you're talking to an audience, you're showing your humanity, however you wanna describe that.
I would suggest, that's acknowledging feelings, using storytelling, coming across as someone who really understands the issues in addition to the substance, but also, the impacts that they have in the real world, I think that's important. I wouldn't necessarily change my executive presence for different audiences because I would keep those factors in mind.
I would say, though, that audiences have different interests and different lived experiences, so citing those things, is critical, and it is a big part of executive presence. And because those things can be very different depending on whether you're talking to one audience or another, that's how I would express this idea of shifting your executive presence.
I wouldn't say you're changing it. I would just say that you're expressing it in ways that [00:26:00] are tailored for the particular audience. As far as, how do you demonstrate executive presence in a crisis, having worked in Capitol Hill for so long, I have a cliché for every possible situation.
So I would say here's one for you, which is: Don't dig a well when you're thirsty. And by that I mean, you wanna be building executive presence throughout your interactions professionally. And then when there is a crisis, when there's a drought, hidden fine metaphor, you already have the reservoir of support.
You know, you have the trust. You have built up this sentiment that people want to follow you, and during this difficult time, you could be asking people to stay late, work weekends, take work home,, just be available, , because we don't know when something's gonna come up, don't log off, at 6:00.
If you could just do it for this finite period. And if you have actually [00:27:00] built your executive presence and have this kind of connection and relatability with your people, then they're gonna understand, look, this is for a finite period of time. They're gonna have these feelings, positive feelings, that have been encouraged and cultivated through your authentic executive presence.
Then you're gonna do a lot better during a crisis as well. So the time to build executive presence is not during a crisis. Of course, people feel like, "Oh, he's just doing that," or, "She's just doing that." They're just doing that because we're in a bind, you want to already have that support, so it's there when you need it, in particular like during a crisis.
Tom O'Toole: So many of our viewers might lead or manage in more global roles meaning that they might be exposed to, cultural expectations, biases around what constitutes executive presence. It might be very different, so in your experience, how do expectations or stereotypes or biases affect the perceptions of what it means to have strong executive presence?
And this actually relates to [00:28:00] two questions that we got online from viewers. So first from, from AD: have you found that there are different expectations of how executive presence is defined for men versus women?" And then from Michelle, "How can we show leadership and executive presence when you're the youngest one there?"
Michelle says she feels like, "I struggle with not just my gender, but my age as well," even though she's proven to be dependable, someone you can ask questions to. So this idea of kind of expectations or bias or stereotype and how we perceive, executives that are trying to project presence.
Mark Bayer: The first one, I can tell you. So just imagine, we're in a meeting, this is on Capitol Hill. We're in the boss's office, and, CEO comes in, and, it's a male, let's say for example. And so we always had scientists on staff, and the PhD scientists often were women.
And so we're in this room, and the CEO would be talking to the boss, and he might be talking to me, who was the chief of staff. And he really wouldn't [00:29:00] look, at the women in the room. And then he would leave, and we would say... First of all, the women in the room were the PhD scientists who were gonna be working on the issue.
So that blind spot of him thinking, "Well, these aren't the powerful people in the room, so I don't need to engage them," is a huge mistake. To answer that question, yeah, it can be difficult to interact or to, project executive presence. It can be different and maybe more-- and difficult, both of those things.
As a white guy, I don't have that obviously first-person experience, but I am very sensitive to it. And part of that, is these power dynamics. So I mean, as a woman, I'd say generally speaking, trying to be authentic and,, in your interactions, not trying to, go be too deferential, for example.
Maybe it's like I think there's gonna be some resistance to my leadership. I might try to be too deferential. Trying to be your authentic self because [00:30:00] people recognize that, and they generally respect that. If you get Pushback in your interactions as a woman perhaps.
You could ask questions like, "Is there an issue with that?" in a way that isn't threatening. I think that's probably as far as I'm willing to go on this because I don't have this personal experience. I do recognize, of course, that it is different, and it can be really hard. President Obama used to say that Michelle Obama had to do everything that he had to do basically except backwards and in heels.
So he, you know, recognized that she was part of that team, and it was a lot harder for her, and she got a lot more criticism even as First Lady, I think because she was a woman and probably because she was a Black woman. The other question about a young person, I think you're definitely on the right track by showing that you are willing to, , help out, learn new things.
It's a great way to get people to then come to you with increased responsibility. So she did a great [00:31:00] job on this. She was a can-do person. Oh, I have this other thing that maybe is a little bit above her area of responsibility. I'm gonna go to her because I've had this interaction, built up some trust.
I've seen her work product. I would just say keep at it. Keep doing that. Volunteering for things. I'm sure you have a lot to do in your regular job, but to the extent that you can demonstrate that. I read a really great column about this, where a very junior staffer in these meetings was taking notes, and she was really, getting a good understanding of larger business questions that the company was facing.
And then she became a real resource for people over time and then was quickly promoted as she, built that reputation and demonstrated that, she was thinking more broadly, not just in her box as her particular position description required
Tom O'Toole: This next question actually relates to a couple of our viewers are interested in, , for someone early in their leadership journey, what's one daily [00:32:00] habit that helps in consistently managing how they're perceived by senior executives? Because there's kind of this art, right, to executive presence, and in my mind at least, art requires practice, what are some of these habits or practices that executives should engage in to consistently, I guess, show up with presence and impact?
Mark Bayer: If you're a junior person and you're interacting with executives, I would be familiar with higher level business strategy that your organization's engaged in. What are the big issues, whether they're new competitors, or there's a funding, challenge, or the exec just spoke to a group, of people, and said certain things, and you, like, were clued into all of these things even though it wasn't really in your job description.
And then looking for opportunities to maybe be a resource related to those things or signal that you know about those things, and you have a view about those things, I think is a great way as a junior person to demonstrate to executives that you're actually-- you're thinking like they do. They need to think across [00:33:00] enterprise, collaborate with different departments.
They need to come up with strategies of where are we gonna directionally take the organization. To, so to signal that you are paying attention to some of those factors is a great way to build your reputation on that front. I would say for executives, and it's why I'm reading this book right now, by a former CEO of a company called Kronos, K-R-O-N-O-S, and his name is Aron Ain.
And he talks a lot about things that he would do to signal authentically, to signal to his employees, this is a billion-dollar company, that he, cared about them, the organization cared about them. He would do things like gestures like he would g- make a condolence call to an employee's family when they lost a loved one.
He would eat in the same sort of dining room along with his people. There's an expression about managing by walking around, which is just being available and asking proactively while you're, walking through the [00:34:00] office, you're in an elevator, taking time to just ask a- an employee what's new, what are they working on, where do they think things are going, showing that curiosity.
Just remembering that You're human, they're human. You wanna build connection. You wanna show that you're-- you see these people, you hear them, and you wanna interact with them, not on a hierarchical level all the time. You wanna just demonstrate that you're clued into some of their challenges as time goes by
Tom O'Toole: So a great question from one of our viewers, and this kind of relates to sort of controlling the anxiety, right?
From going to-- from a small setting to a large setting. So what would you call someone who people trust and follow in smaller settings, but who doesn't quite command the room in big meetings or town halls, so this goes back to this discussion we just had on practice, , how do you curb some of that anxiety in going from, a smaller setting to a larger setting?
How do you sort of like, emotionally, prepare yourself to make , that shift?
Mark Bayer: Yeah.
And the first thing I would call person has a lot of [00:35:00] potential, and has that potential to go to a larger stage. And also relate to something you said earlier, Tom, about practice putting yourself in that situation, more than once, and looking for opportunities maybe to speak to groups. It can even be outside of your work responsibilities. It could be part of your volunteer responsibilities. Or even if you did Toastmasters or something where you're getting up and talking to people. It's people talk about exposure therapy.
, The more you do something like that, it lowers your anxiety. You start to get more comfortable. You could start to get positive feedback, which makes you feel good. Maybe looking for other opportunities to do that. The last thing I would do is just to say, "You know what? I just can't take it to the next level."
, And I am glad that the poll in the beginning reflects that about seventy-one peop-percent of people really do believe it's a skill you can learn. It's sort of like in a conference. If you go to a conference, they have breakout sessions, and then they have the plenary, and they have other keynote speakers.
So if you [00:36:00] say, "Well, I'm a workshop speaker. I'm in the conference, I'm in a smaller room, maybe there are twenty people. I'm really good with them. But how do I get to be a keynoter? Like, how do I get to go to the bigger space, in the convention hall?" And, you can do it.
And I think part of it is saying, "Look, a lot of the skills that I'm using in this breakout room, in this smaller environment, I'm going to use again in a larger environment." Sometimes, it involves more training. I took a seven-month keynote, speaker program, myself, 'cause I'd never really been trained.
I did a lot of public speaking, but I'd never really gotten the training. And so there are aspects of the training that help. And so now when I do a keynote, I'm really just as relaxed as, uh, well, you know, you're always, like, alert, but I'm in the same level of anxiety that I would be in a smaller breakout room.
And I think part of that is also this idea of being comfortable in your own skin, which is part of executive presence. You feel like you've done a good job, you've prepared, you have this great opportunity to talk [00:37:00] to a larger audience.
Tom O'Toole: So in thinking more about projecting presence in different environments, how do you see technology changing the way we think about executive presence?
And I think this also connects to our earlier discussions about authenticity and connection, it became a really prominent concern during the pandemic when we had more online meetings, became much more the norm as they are now.
Mark Bayer: Yeah. I think we talked a lot in the beginning about the word executive and where it comes from.
Mm-hmm. Didn't spend as much time on presence. And with presence, that really means, being there. So in a conversation, face-to-face in the real world, you're listening, really listening to the responses. You're curious. You're asking relevant follow-up questions and doing all that.
How do you transfer that kind of humanity, so to speak, to the virtual world? One idea is, say you're on a Zoom with someone, and you're the executive, you're the leader, you're leading the call. And they have some interesting things to say. There's some [00:38:00] valuable, ideas that they're bringing to the table.
You could send a quick video clip to that person, or of course you could send an email. And you'd be amazed. Like, say, "Hey, that was a great idea you had. Like, we hadn't actually thought about that. You know, let's discuss," or, "Talk to your manager about this," or, "I'm gonna connect you. The three of us should talk," or,
let's explore this a little bit further." Like, even a really quick email. I like to do video clips, and sometimes I'll do that before a keynote speech. And I'll just say, "Hey, I'm coming to see you, and I'm really excited," and all that. Because otherwise they don't know who this person is.
They might see a flyer or something, but to see the face, and hear the voice can be more powerful and to be able to illustrate some presence even virtually using technology, of course, can make a real difference when you're talking about, being there, even if it's virtually or it's recorded.
Tom O'Toole: So when we think about executive presence or when we say that someone has strong executive presence, I think our perception is that a lot of that's driven by personality. So we look at really strong executives, and [00:39:00] some of us might think to ourselves, "I could never be that. I could never do that."
, From your perspective, is executive presence something that can be learned? Is it something that people either have or don't? And how does your teaching help students build executive presence skills, or tap into executive presence that they didn't realize they had?
Mark Bayer: I love that question. When I was on Capitol Hill, one of the great things about working on the Hill is, like, everybody comes through there. Ted Turner, who I just saw, , pass away, you know, he would come into our office. I met him. Admirals,, you might see. Back in the day, Nelson Mandela was walking, down the hall.
All these people would be coming in for meetings. And regardless of the sector, these are, of course, like, top leaders. Regardless of the sector, they had certain qualities in common, and we've been talking about that. Yes, they knew their subject matter, and they had certain other elements. This is the stylistic piece that we talked about upfront.
And so when I teach executive presence, I'm teaching because I really do believe people can learn it. [00:40:00] There are really the elements, the model that I use is really what I call the CARE model, which is C-A-R-E. It's an acronym. So the C is curiosity, like showing genuine curiosity about the other person, and it can be, asking about, what they like to do on weekends.
It doesn't have to be just business, and actually you wanna demonstrate humanity throughout your interactions. The A is authenticity. You really can't make stuff up. You can't, "Oh, I love to play golf," when I've, never golfed in my life just because the other person says something about golf.
It has to be authentic and honest and true, because it's the right thing to do, and also people can sense when you are just, giving them the runaround or you're just, puff piece or whatever it is. So being authentic is the second part. The R is reciprocity. I mean, people work really hard these days in organizations, and they're giving of their time and their energy, which is so precious.
So think about ways to reciprocate. Yes, [00:41:00] you're also part of that team. You're also working really hard. If you've been recognized as a leader, you've been given sort of an extra responsibility to think about how can I give back to my team. I know referencing the book, that Aron Ain, the CE- former CEO of Kronos wrote, one of the things they did away with fixed vacation time in the sense that they wanted, and they ensured actually, that their people could take vacation when they wanted it.
They weren't limited to a certain number of days as long as their work was getting done, and that was one of the things that employees had s- had really wanted as part of the HR process in determining, like, what, what employees want, what's gonna make them happy. And actually, that company's been recognized a number of times as a great place to work.
So the reciprocity aspect. And the third is empathy. These all relate to feelings, just understanding somebody comes to work, they're having a tough day, like there's a reason for that. Something, may have happened in their world I think part of empathy is assuming positive intent.
Like when [00:42:00] something happens or someone says something, like not just going straight to, "Well, they're just a difficult person," or, "Why won't they just understand when I..." And just do this kind of thing. It's like trying to uncover what's going on, and you learn a lot, and you demonstrate your humanity, so to speak.
And then you're showing real executive presence as part of that. So it's the CARE model, curiosity, authenticity, reciprocity, and empathy.
I Hope that our discussion today helped you see specifically elements that you can use, and I think I would just say when you're thinking about building your own executive presence, just try to get in touch with the human aspect of the workplace.
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