As AI increasingly automates work, our panelists argue that human skills like listening, empathy, and judgment—formalized through a "Hospitality Fluency" framework—become the true competitive differentiator that leaders must deliberately protect and cultivate rather than delegate to machines.
Find out more about Bruce Tracey’s General Managers Program: https://ecornell.short.gy/fKKWmj
Howard’s Gift book: https://ecornell.short.gy/1OLdog
Artificial intelligence is no longer just a tool; it’s starting to resemble an entirely new species. This raises a fundamental question: What remains distinctly human?
In this Keynote, Bruce Tracey, Professor of Management at Cornell’s Nolan School of Hotel Administration, and Eric Sinoway ’96, CEO of Pravi, introduce Hospitality FluencyTM as a universal language of human interaction. When technology takes over more of the work, the differentiator becomes how we listen, respond, and connect.
Professor Tracey and Mr. Sinoway bring this concept to life with vivid examples of when people, processes, and technology succeed or fail. The session challenges leaders to determine what can be delegated to AI and what must remain the province of human judgment.
What You'll Learn
Intro: Welcome to Cornell Keynotes. Today we're joined by Bruce Tracy, Professor of Management at Cornell's Nolan School of Hotel Administration, and Eric Sinoway, Cornell class of ninety-six, CEO of Pravi and architect of Humans Still Matter. Together, they explore what remains distinctly human as artificial intelligence evolves into something resembling an entirely new species.
They share vivid examples of service winners and failures to help leaders determine what can be delegated to AI and what must remain under human control. The insights they discuss connect to leadership and management principles taught in the Cornell General Managers program. Check the episode notes for more details.
And now, here's our conversation with Cornell's Bruce Tracy and Eric Sinoway.
Bruce Tracey: [00:01:00] So Eric, let's talk about the ways in which the notion of hospitality has evolved from the time you entered the industry, and some of the hot button issues that we seem to be facing here today.
Eric Sinoway: Sure. Well, first of all, thanks for having me, Bruce. for those out there who, who have not, had or don't know Bruce, he is a pillar of the hotel school at Cornell, and a, a dear friend and industry thought leader in all things that, have to do with, human engagement.
Bruce Tracey: Aw, shucks.
Eric Sinoway: Um, yes, and we met when he was, uh, He was, like, 29, and I, I think I was a 19-year-old freshman, so this has been a long time, and very organic and authentic, and it's wonderful to, talk about this topic with you, Bruce. When I started at the hotel school, hospitality, was generally defined as hotels and restaurants, with perhaps some other things.
Over time, I think it's fair to say, the industry definition got broader to, travel, to tourism, to events, and things like that, and my sense is that your, creation of [00:02:00] hospitality fluency is the next natural evolution in answering a very simple question, which is, what is hospitality?
Bruce Tracey: Yeah. I think of it in the construct of fluency, as an ability.
There's some behavioral elements, but there's also dispositional, components, and I'll get into s- some of those foundational pieces as we go through this. And it's a reminder of, the focus I had on the vertical when I first started, and not being familiar with because I was a little bit of an outsider, never worked in hospitality prior to coming to the hotel school.
So considering myself as a student of that indust- of the industry since, I've been really thoughtful about trying to think about, the vertical and then the concept of hospitality that seems to be a label that we use to define it. And so the evolution of thinking has, I think, changed the shape , of how we think about the industry, and the transferable elements of what we know about hospitality to really any organization for which, uh, there's a human interaction.
And I think that's the [00:03:00] North Star that you and I have shared, you know, since we've begun this conversation, how it's, come to be and, its manifestations today, is very human-centric. And that's one of those things that really has to be the North Star that we really care about the human and human condition, that we, you know, are here to try to better it in some positive way, shape, or form.
Eric Sinoway: Yeah, I think that's a great starting point because, many of us are thinking about, talking about, involved in, all things AI and technology, , as perhaps we should be. , And, know, that's the world in which we live.
Bruce Tracey: It's one of those hot button issues that we're dealing with today, right?
Eric Sinoway: 100%. With that said, I think it's, stating something really simple but profound, which is this: Despite the AI, despite the technology, despite the computing power beyond our wildest comprehension, humans still matter. So I mean like that's a very basic, you know, humans still matter. So, AI can scale intelligence.
It doesn't have judgment. It shouldn't make [00:04:00] strategic decisions, and perhaps most importantly, it can't be held accountable.
Bruce Tracey: Yeah. It's an interesting idea here, isn't it?
Eric Sinoway: right. Technology's here, and, and what we've developed, as that North Star that you described, is what we call an operating lens.
The humans still matter operating lens, and it says there are certain tasks that can be delegated to technology, there are certain tasks that have to still be human, and then there's that messy intersection in the m- the middle. And w- what I think is really profound about what you've created is diving into that human piece because the topic of service now is so much bigger than just the traditional hospitality industry, one, and two, things that you and I took as given, such as how human beings behave together, are not necessarily a given anymore, and I'm sure you see that in your students and the work you do in the field.
Bruce Tracey: We use the term curation a lot, and we may overuse it in this conversation, so I apologize if that's the case.
Eric Sinoway: Not to me.
Bruce Tracey: But it's an intentionality. It's a purposeful approach to, [00:05:00] the way in which we're going to, conduct our business and engage with each other, and I think about that a lot and, and that's the piece I think that's motivational and that, uh, that somewhat is formative, but it's also developable, and we'll talk a bit about the ways in which some of these fluency components can be established in ways that you can p- you know, almost take them to the bank.
They're predictable, and they can really have very, you know, noticeable and, and, uh, very profound influences on people and the workplaces in which they are doing their bit. Nice.
Eric Sinoway: Please.
Bruce Tracey: So let's start off with- Yeah ... then some of the foundational elements to this, and, as I would just described, it, it's a mindset.
it's an intentional, purposeful mindset with the intention to create a better and more positive outcome on others, and it is people-centric here.
Eric Sinoway: Is it fair... Sorry to jump in, Bruce, but is it fair to say that hospitality fluency has evolved beyond the hospitality mindset? 'Cause I know that's where, y- you know, you had been working for a long time, sort of what is your [00:06:00] mindset?
Bruce Tracey: Yes.
Eric Sinoway: And it seems to me that this is the next natural evolution that entails not just the mindset, but perhaps actual behavior as well.
Bruce Tracey: It is, and let me roll back just a little bit as I've thought about this from an educational lens, 'cause that's what I do.
Eric Sinoway: Sure.
Bruce Tracey: And I think a lot about the motivation and sometimes the lack thereof of my students when they come into a course, especially mine that I teach that's required.
And not everybody wants to be there. So I have to think about two kinds of things that stimulate the learning process. This is what we've known about how people acquire new knowledge and skill. They have to have some understanding that there's relevance to them, right? There's a utility kind of a perception that they see there's some benefit in the moment for them being there.
So that's a bit of a sell job on my part to, even if most of them are not gonna go into the discipline of human resources management, they'll still be responsible for some elements of that function, whether they're, business owners or CEOs or similar. the other piece of this, there has to be an enjoyment function, otherwise you're not gonna look forward to the next one.
So if you [00:07:00] can touch people on those two levels effectively, you show them that there's relevance and you make it feel good, then they're more likely to acquire that foundational knowledge that you're seeking to develop, right? And then there's different levels of that that you try to push forward in that process of engagement in that learning context, and catering to the different learning styles of the individuals that you're working with.
So some tend to be a little bit more auditory in their approach, some tend to be more visual, so you try to adjust your instructional methods to accommodate that. You see the parallels now to the service context. And then the follow-up on this is there's a lot of assessment to see, how did we do? Are we making progress toward that?
And then taking corrective action if necessary, or accelerating the process if you see people doing really, really well. So lots of parallels then if you think about the way in which hospitality can play out. There's a hierarchical kind of nature here, and there's some dispositional factors that have to be in place, otherwise all bets are off.
If you don't care, forget about it. So that's sort of a foundational piece. That's a little bit of the [00:08:00] mindset, but that's certainly, it's a necessary but not sufficient condition. So I then think about, then what are the knowledge bases that you need to have so that you can execute on that feel-good, so that you can take that motivation and put it into practice in a way that is thoughtful in some cases.
And my wife doesn't like me using this word too much, but bespoke, right? Sure. 'Cause it's really customized, and that personalized element of that, that's what really touches people. And then the behaviors that follow, because that knowledge is so deeply set and so familiar, it's just seamless. It's just almost just like it's natural.
Eric Sinoway: And is that the fluency part?
Bruce Tracey: That's the fluency part.
Eric Sinoway: Got it.
Bruce Tracey: And it's, it's one of those where the processing abilities and that dispositional outlook come to bear in a context where you can accurately read and process the signals and cues that you're getting, prioritize them, so that requires a certain amount of cognitive ability.
Mm-hmm. And then to be able then to engage in the appropriate behaviors. And is this a moment where I can take a good situation and try to make it even better, or is it a bad situation where I'm just trying to make it less bad? [00:09:00] Right? So there's different elements of that response that would be, again, situationally appropriate.
So there's a lot of factors that come together that define what that fluency looks like and how you then go ahead and develop it in at least a, a formal and purposeful way.
Eric Sinoway: And so if I understand your thinking correctly, for 30 years you've been working on humanity in one particular industry, largely hospitality.
You know, the aha is that it's now a definition that's bigger than a specific industry and can be applied where? Is it anywhere that two or more humans interact? Because if it's someone with a computer, they don't necessarily need to be fluent in hospitality if they're just, typing code. But, it seems like, you know, whether you're in a hospital, in an insurance company, a home maintenance company, are those hospitality activities now, or can they be?
Bruce Tracey: It was interesting that you mentioned that 'cause I had a conversation with a student yesterday-
Eric Sinoway: Yeah ...
Bruce Tracey: about at what point does it become hospitality versus service? As an [00:10:00] example, service is, the center point of, of what people think about when you frame hospitality as a construct.
And we talked about some of service is very transactional in nature. You're not really trying to think about the emotion at all. You're just trying to move from point A to point B- without, you know, really too much care or concern about how it feels. hospitality is one of those where I think I would argue by definition it has to be human, right?
We can interact with a chatbot in a way that gives us information that we need to make a purchase decision, for example. Does that require emotion? Maybe. It means I need to be satisfied with the information that I've received. So Is that gonna elevate it to memorable? Probably not, right? So that's where I think about hospitality is creating something where there's at least a short-term memory impact, and that if it's truly memorable, obviously that's something that will have lasting effects.
And those are the things I think are, developable, but [00:11:00] it's also helpful to have history with that in that you have, a very foundational, not only understanding, but experience around that. so if I may, I think about a principle value that is embedded into that dispositional bucket, and that's the care for others and concern for others.
And boy, I tell you what, there's some real fond memories that stick out, and a lot of them have to do with my grandmother, right? And what she taught me about being hospitable, and I'll tell a quick story. My brother and I were very young, seven, eight years old-ish, and my parents decided they wanted to send us to see my grandmother, who lived about an hour away, by bus.
Never traveled alone before, so that in itself was kinda scary.
Eric Sinoway: Model parenting. Yeah. No judgment.
Bruce Tracey: It's when kids could be actually feral and run around without-
Eric Sinoway: Yep ...
Bruce Tracey: you know, the fears that seem to be exist, uh, exist today. So we get on the bus, and I was Nervous Nellie, right? But the bus driver was reassuring, "Don't worry, I'll let you off where we've agreed to."
And, and it was raining, so [00:12:00] that elevated the tension, right? And I never forget the moment when we pull into the stop, I see the lights of the car where my grandmother had pulled in, and she's standing out there, it was raining, with an umbrella, and the biggest smile on your face, and it was like, "Oh, my goodness.
Thank ... " You know?
Eric Sinoway: I'm
okay.
Bruce Tracey: Yeah, I'm okay. Okay. We- we'll be great. And it wasn't just the greeting there. She knew exactly what my brother and I needed in the moment: ice cream. So we went straight back to her house, and sure enough, that was the first thing served up. And that, anticipatory moment, my grandmother knew exactly how we were gonna feel.
Pretty anxious and out of sorts. And she knew exactly what it would take to elev- you know, bring the elevated tension down to a level of feeling like, you know, we didn't have to worry about a thing anymore because we were in her care.
Eric Sinoway: Yeah. Can I build on that for a sec? Because when you were working on the definition and putting together your research to support hospitality fluency, one of the things that struck me was how different it was and how bigger it was than just soft skills.
[00:13:00] So soft skills, as I understand it, is a piece of hospitality fluency, but you mentioned anticipation. Hospitality to me is also kindness. It's deference to others. It's a whole host of things that, again, we used to perhaps take for granted, but if we take an honest look at society today, perhaps because people can hide behind screens, perhaps because anonymity, perhaps because of divisiveness in society, some of the just kindness and general, What used to be, given human behaviors seem less prevalent.
Bruce Tracey: Yeah.
Eric Sinoway: And I think as I've thought about this, during your development of it, you know, this, the idea of hospitality fluency is you sort of have to be fluent in how to be a human being with another human being, as simple as that might sound.
Bruce Tracey: Laura, ... A beautiful first question here.
What are some ways to create the same hu- human interaction in a world that is so heavily online now? And it's a great question to that point.
Eric Sinoway: Yep.
Bruce Tracey: I battle with this in the classroom, the relationship that [00:14:00] we all have with our devices is now a really interesting and unique one. And it's almost an appendage, and what I've found is that, in order to promote this, you have to be present.
So I now have a policy, and it's a weird one to have, is that no technology unless it's needed for an activity or something in the classroom- ... that is a learning component. And if you can't live in that environment, this is not a place- It's in my class. Well, you can't learn because if you're not present, then whatever inputs you're trying to take in that are novel and new and that can build on existing knowledge bases and create the associations that are required for you to extend that knowledge base and find it useful, that's not possible if you've got distractions.
We kid ourselves about our abilities to multitask, and in learning, that's a particularly important requirement. So I, I would say in hospitality, being present is extraordinarily important. Now, this is where I've had some debate with a lot of folks about, well, what about AI? I said, well, yeah, AI could be [00:15:00] really helpful if I can now exploit the information generated from those different AI-enabled sources so that I now know more about you during that moment of being present-
and exploit that for purposes of trying to touch you in ways that I wouldn't be able to otherwise, right? So because memories are fallible, we're human beings, right? Which is, both a blessing and a curse. having some enabling kinds of inputs like AI-generated knowledge about who you are as a guest or as a person can help me be more personable and therefore human in our interaction.
Eric Sinoway: Yeah, I don't think anyone's saying, "Don't use technology." I think what you're describing is- It's
Bruce Tracey: not the enemy ...
Eric Sinoway: it's not the enemy. But it does- It's also not-
Bruce Tracey: Yeah ...
Eric Sinoway: everything.
Bruce Tracey: Well, and the prognostications about it replacing or supplanting people is appropriate in cases where the work that people are doing- adds little value. It's a cost. It's a transaction. It's not central to delivering an elevated hospitality experience. It's memorable in a positive sometimes not only, day, but life-changing way.
Eric Sinoway: Well, [00:16:00] it's funny you say that because- Although I've been working on this for some time with you, when you say hospitality, my brain still goes initially to hotels, restaurants, resorts-
Bruce Tracey: An industry setting
Eric Sinoway: an industry setting. I imagine same with perhaps those online. What you ended with though reminds me of something really profound that I just, heard about yesterday. Our friend and colleague, Harvard Business School's Howard Stevenson, is in the hospital. God willing, he'll be fine. With that said, he's in Boston, the medical center of the United States, some of the world's great institutions, and the hospital he chose was based on the humanity, not where the best research was done, not where the biggest brand was.
He went to a hospital that he intentionally had identified because he thought, in his words, it was hospitable. He knew he'd be there for some time, and, um, and it just made him feel better and more, respected and comfortable. And to me, that was extraordinary because many people, including my own's, first bias is, you know, [00:17:00] what's the best?
Bruce Tracey: Yeah.
Eric Sinoway: And I think this hospitality fluency idea might change how people evaluate what best entails.
Bruce Tracey: Yeah. It's interesting question about how we make choices- how we determine the relative weights of experience that we want to have, you know, in this case in a very important life or death-
Eric Sinoway: Life or death situation
Bruce Tracey: kind of situation. Right. Right?
Eric Sinoway: Yep.
Bruce Tracey: And I, think a lot about the calculus that we use, and this is where we'll talk about in a bit where firms trip up a lot. We get hung up on efficiency and cost control. And especially if you look at the side of the business that is heavily on the ownership side, the care and concern for people tends to be de minimis in many cases.
And so that then drives a lot of decisions that may get in the way then of firms being hospitable. So leadership needs to be enlightened. Firms then need to enact policies and practices, and then decide from the AI and other types of technology supports how it will be deployed appropriately so that the milieu of considerations are, are weighed appropriately, and that if you're trying to differentiate, if you're [00:18:00] trying to elevate a service experience, you've got ways of complementing, not competing with that in the organizational context.
Eric Sinoway: Agreed.
Bruce Tracey: Yeah. All right, so on the dispositional foundations, I mentioned this notion of, others first and the importance of what you learn as, as a child, and I, I got from my grandmother.
It's also reinforcing, you mentioned the soft side, other types of those difficult to kind of articulate and especially difficult to measure qualities around individuals and I think a lot about curiosity. I host a conference, and have done so for the last 20 years, on HR and hospitality, and we had this wonderful speaker talk about executive coaching.
executive coaching, as she described it, isn't just you giving information. It's, it's a lot of it, and you're responding to that which your client in this case or whomever you're coaching uh, is giving you. And a lot of it is, predicated on the questions you ask and the ways in which you frame those questions.
And I find that curiosity is one of those things that drives a lot of people in, this mindset, [00:19:00] is that they just wanna know about folks. And I'm guilty of the 20 questions model when I meet somebody. I, you know, "What do you do for fun?" is a question I like to start with, and you go from there and talk about family, just try to get a whole person perspective.
And some of that is just I find the human condition to be so uniquely and completely in- interesting, 'cause everybody's got an interesting story. Everybody's got a different story. I just think that that's kind of fun and, something that I respond to and I just wanna know more about.
Right. I think that's another thing that, that comes with that purposefulness, that intentionality, is this desire to know more.
Eric Sinoway: Yeah, that- What you're describing to me is you value those things.
Bruce Tracey: Yes.
Eric Sinoway: Even if technology could shorten a line for you or compress a transaction, you know, just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should.
You're describing things that only a human can do, and I would imagine are core to the idea of being fluent in the language of hospitality.
Bruce Tracey: And the more we do this, the more connected we [00:20:00] become, and if you think about it, it's a pretty intimate kind of experience. This is what I learned sort of operationally when I first started, but now it's taken on a very different flavor.
When you take somebody into your hotel, right?
Eric Sinoway: Mm-hmm.
Bruce Tracey: That's your, you're staying in my home is kind of a concept you're, you're, promoting here, and that's a very personal act. And you want, if you're having a guest stay in your home, there's a feeling you would like that person to have if it's a good experience, and the brands and owners and so forth are trying to make that happen on a consistent basis.
And I think about that as there's brand standards, so that's kind of a transactional element, but there's a human still involved in that- that allows it to become something more than just, you know, a place to put your bed for a rate. And I think a lot about that as a basis for understanding, you know, again, the ways in which you can look into those moments and see how you can make it as good as it can be.
There's fundamentals that have to be there, the cleanliness, expediency of the [00:21:00] process, but then there are those moments in between, before, and after that you can use as a basis for touching people in some of those really direct ways. Same with things like going out to dinner at a restaurant.
That's a very intimate process of consuming food. You're taking food that people are preparing and putting it into your body and the care and concern that is necessary for that, not just from a health and safety standpoint, but for it to be a delightful experience that people are gonna wanna, you know, really enjoy in the moment and come back for because it was just splendid.
Eric Sinoway: Can I build off that just for a minute? What we're finding at Pravi is everything you just described is starting to become a differentiator among companies in different industries. So for example, there's an executive named Joe Clark at Howden Insurance Company. Insurance sort of kind of is a commodity- You
Bruce Tracey: don't think about service and insurance in the same breath.
Eric Sinoway: It's a commodity largely, partially because it's regulated. So Howden, what it's doing is it says, "We wanna be a trust company, a hospitality [00:22:00] company, and a service excellence company that happens to sell insurance." And, like, what a different shift from what you associate traditionally with, you know, insurance versus hospitality.
Can you speak to how that is illustrative of or related to hospitality fluency?
Bruce Tracey: Sure. I mean, you're talking about a construct now that is generalizable regardless, right? So wherever humans are, you can in- infuse it, you know, the context. So I think about the world I live in a lot in HR. HR professionals are driven a lot by the employee value proposition, the employee experience.
Well, that's, that's great But you also have to be mindful then of the guest experience and what the guest demands so that you can then decide how you wanna deploy and direct that individual in the human equation that is on the service delivery side appropriately. Right? So I think a lot about the ways in which regardless of what you consider guest or employee or guest or, a customer
that's internal, external, it's humans, right? And [00:23:00] wherever there's a- That I
Eric Sinoway: think is the point,
Bruce Tracey: right- Right. Where there's a human con- ... there's a human interaction ... you know, connection ... now you can, you think about this lens of being hospitable. Yeah. Right? And I mentioned some other dispositional factors.
There's a care and concern that you learn f- from, you know, grandmothers and other, people of importance when you're younger.
I think about a lot of the culturally based versions of hospitality, some of which are a little bit more transactional in nature. Others are really complex, and I think about the Japanese version of omotenashi. And that having a very, deep and, very respectful orientation. Deference is a big part of the way hospitality is demonstrated in that culture.
It's also very historically created, so it's got this very long tradition, and there's a legacy and almost obligation socially to demonstrate the kinds of behaviors that are very nuanced but very, you know, much consistent with the kinds of, of notions of, life as service and giving others the true attention and time and love they deserve.
And I, I think there certainly, It's [00:24:00] important to note that while AI might be able to give you some general, ways in which you might be appropriately and contextually consistent with, you know, Japanese cultural traditions of hospitality, I think there's a, a matter of being in that context and living it directly, that for which there's, there's no other substitute.
Eric Sinoway: Yeah, and the way I think about your model with hospitality fluency is arbitrarily there's 70 or 80% of it that's universal around the world, anytime there's human reaction. And then to your point, there are different nuances based on where you are geographically, but, the reason that I was so enthused about your work is that it's almost like a universal language.
Bruce Tracey: Yeah.
Eric Sinoway: And the tech, and the social media knows no borders And similarly therefore, there's a perhaps deficit in the knowledge of how humans interact that knows no borders, and that this hospitality fluency, framework and research and knowledge you have behind it [00:25:00] now gives people around the world sort of a common way to say this is how humans interact.
Bruce Tracey: Yeah.
Eric Sinoway: And there might be shades, as you say Japan might be different than Europe might be different than the US- Sure ... but the core of it, I think- Well- ... fits the framework you described ...
Bruce Tracey: it's an interesting question 'cause there are some situational factors that determine the extent to which some of these characteristics may be more or less relevant.
So there's, what we don't know is some of the weights associated with the inputs, but we do know that there are many things we can take to the bank. Uh, I'll give you one example. A mantra that I, I learned early on that I now, I try to evangelize a- against, which is hire for attitude, train for skill.
It's both, right? And you can do both very easily, right? To ignore skill means then you're, you're ignoring the ability of individuals to do things above, and beyond a given job description, And so I find it to be also really interesting when you think about the predictors of performance.
Again, if you put on your real, technical lens here and, uh, as research evidence show, I mean, there's certain [00:26:00] characteristics, conscientiousness is one of those. That's a dispositional characteristic personality dimension we all have to some extent. And that's highly predictive of performance across a variety of situations, across a variety of jobs, and across a, you know, anything you can imagine.
It's a generalizable kind of requirement here. I can hire for that in relatively expeditious ways. I don't need a commercially available tool. I'll give you the clever general manager, those of you who are looking for a hack, right? the general manager was very clever. At the end of a, of an interview-
Eric Sinoway: Yeah
Bruce Tracey: if the interviewee provided responses that suggested they had the requisite knowledge and maybe some of the, culture fit kinds of qualities Took the candidate to a guest room, took about 10 minutes, and that guest room was set up with 10 things wrong with it. You know, whatever your housekeeping assistant, you know, set up in the, in a consistent way that were not on, on brand.
Eric Sinoway: Yeah.
Bruce Tracey: And the more of those you could identify as a room inspection activity, the more conscientious the, the general manager thought you [00:27:00] to be. And very clever and, and I'm sure, um, although I don't have, you know, specific validation information, I'm sure is a very good indicator of that particular-
Eric Sinoway: Tight correlation there.
Bruce Tracey: Yeah, yeah. Right. Definitely. And that's something that has relevance, you know, early stage performance, late stage performance, it doesn't matter. So, and is that uniquely hospitality? No. But it is a core component of that attention to detail, that mise en place, the preparation, that you care, that you're gonna be attending to the details of that individual.
And good, for example, companies have CRM systems that do that. They mine that information to get whatever mise en place they can get out of you, so when you show up, the s- the table's already set
Eric Sinoway: Yeah, and , I would argue, as an example, a, a great timely example is, um, Horst Schulte, is involved with a company called Exhale, which is a home maintenance, um, subscription model business. Okay? This is the guy who co-founded Ritz-Carlton. He is trying to bring the type of attention to detail and the emphasis on net [00:28:00] promoter scores and hospitality at the absolute highest level for which he is an iconic figure into a totally different vertical, into Exhale home maintenance and management.
And to me, it is a very real world example of what it is that you've created and are looking to apply across disciplines.
Bruce Tracey: Note from Al, what are some things non-hospitality companies in a traditional sense can learn from hospitality? And I think foundationally what you just mentioned is part of that, and it's actually grounded some wonderful work that came out of the late '90s at the Harvard Business School. Our friends, uh- Mm-hmm
uh, Len Schlesinger and Gary Loveman et al, and the service profit chain, which is probably more appropriately termed the employee profit chain, and the general premise is you invest wisely in people, good things happen. And specifically if you invest in engagement, capabilities, and performance on the employee side, you get two things.
One is you get a really efficient operation 'cause people know what the heck they're doing, right? So there's less waste, there's less service [00:29:00] recovery requirements, and you get a high quality service environment. And in doing so, uh, you delight the guest, and if you delight the guest over and over and over again-
Eric Sinoway: That's the outcome
Bruce Tracey: that's the outcome. You get loyalty. Excuse me. Loyalty is a key driver of revenue. Mm. So you can connect the dots commercially very directly in that way, and that's one of the things that I think any company can benefit from, is what are those service drivers on the employee guest, whatever dimension, vendor side of the equation you're talking about, where there's human interaction that can drive, those wonderful things that, are financially related that owners and shareholders care a lot about.
All right. I wanna mention a couple of other dimensions. We've talked about mostly dispositional factors. There are some other dimensions that are associated with hospitality fluency that are also critically important, and they're both knowledge bases but also, uh, cognitive functions.
One of which is, uh, and not a, a shameless plug for uh, our friends at eCornell, a service excellence model that i- is a really nice micro-learning tool that's [00:30:00] available that, that speaks directly to the conceptual foundations for, providing excellent service and sort of this preparation mode and anticipatory elements of, of setting the stage, as mentioned.
And then also in the context of that interaction, it's really a, a listen, observe, act kind of, of idea to validate what you think you know already but also amplify some of those things that maybe you're guessing at in that moment. And then once you've got that information, engaging appropriately and following through with whatever kinds of, of agreed-upon, uh, uh, terms and conditions that are part of that transaction.
I think a lot about the knowledge specifically around when things don't go wrong, and so understanding how to solve problems, especially in a diplomatic way, that service recovery piece, is another knowledge base that is important in this kind of context 'cause, uh, as much as we'd like to convince ourselves that we can be predictively accurate, we're not.
Eric Sinoway: Right. So- Stuff's gonna happen ...
Bruce Tracey: anticipate the unexpected for sure. So that's another part of a bit of a mindset, but there's a, capability with, uh, that [00:31:00] comes along with that. And then a couple of others here. One is general mental ability, and this is, again, a generalizable characteristic that we all have to some extent, and it's basically how quickly you can learn new information.
And there's tools out there where you can measure that in multiple languages online for, you know, next to nothing, and it gives you such terrific insight on the extent to which individuals can read a room. They can prioritize cues and, and similar kinds of requirements that are important for this fluency and the behavioral natural tendencies that you wanna evolve from that knowledge base that you've got.
and then the other piece of this is it's a little bit dispositional, but it's also developable in a lot of ways, is sort of what I call EQ on steroids. And a lot of this is emotional regulation and how well you can regulate and understand where you're coming from. my wife and I have this wonderful way of relating in the morning that comes from our fitness trackers, and this fitness tracker tells us whether we're in the red, yellow, or green And that is mostly a reminder of maybe the lack of sleep that we've had the night [00:32:00] before, but it's also, importantly, a way of helping us understand how we're gonna relate to each other during the day.
If I know she's in the red, that gives me a really good signal to say, "Hey, I need to be there for you and, and I've got your back." Right? And she needs to know that, and so acknowledging that is hugely important for our day, and, she gets the love and support she needs. And I think about that in the, in the reciprocal.
If I'm in the, in the red and she knows that and she's got a little more gas in her tank, then there's a reciprocation there. So that works really well when we're trying to ma- manage, you know, the, the various demands that we have on our day And gee whiz, wouldn't that be nice if I had that information every time I walked in the classroom?
Eric Sinoway: I'm wondering right now- Right? ... if I could have it.
Bruce Tracey: Yeah, yeah. And I, I think there are ways of doing this. You know, I think about the simple kinds of activities that you see when you go to, um, you know, an airport, and you go into a public bathroom, and you've got the, the little signal there. Is it, you know, was this clean for you today?
Or- Right ... how was your experience in, in, any kind ... Just little touch points like that to be able [00:33:00] to get that insight. And a lot of firms are now engaging in communication tools, and this is again, spinning ahead a little bit to prescription a bit. But the ways in which you can then give people, you know, these insights that allow them to be more effective in their daily routines, and a lot of it's just knowledge-based in that regard.
So I think a lot about then the ability to self-regulate and being able to understand that, even if I'm not in the greatest mood, I can still put on a little bit of a game face here and, and be there for you if, I need to be, right?
Eric Sinoway: Well, and that's the stuff hospitality fluency teaches because, again, I, I think fewer and fewer people are even aware of that or know how to do that, particularly, uh, perhaps Millennials who have grown up, you know, with the screen and the overhang of COVID for others.
Bruce Tracey: Yeah, very much so. Uh, Matt asks an interesting question about whether we might, might have gone too far. Matt asked, "What warning signs tell you that a business has become too dependent on AI and unintentionally drifted a wa- far away from the hospitality, human connection, and personal touch point it had originally [00:34:00] created for its customers?"
You want me to, you want me to give you the, the- Oh,
Eric Sinoway: boy, do I love that ... big
Bruce Tracey: box example- Yeah, go ahead ... that, you know, leading to this?
Eric Sinoway: Yeah. No, we each have a
Bruce Tracey: bunch of these This is fraught with a variety of different kinds of, failures. It's the snowblower purchase example. This is really interesting that the place where I was gonna go purchase a snowblower, big-box store, not necessarily known for service, but, you know, I wanted to try before you buy.
I'm kind of a tactile person, so need to have my hands on this thing. So I did my research online. I found it to be, you know, reasonably easy to get information I needed about the various models I was interested in. so I had a, you know, set of, machines I was interested in purchasing. So I go to the store, and I go to the section that has the snowblowers.
And I'm looking around, and this, this woman comes by, and she notices I'm, I'm checking things out, and she asks if she can help me. I said, "Well, yeah, that'd be great. I'm wondering about the features on some of these things, and I'm wondering if you could tell me more about it." And she wasn't readily knowledgeable, but she quickly pulled up the, the little QR code on the back of the, tag, [00:35:00] did some research, and said, "Oh, well, here's some things about this particular model that, you know, you were asking about," and was very, very helpful.
And knowing that they work on a commission here. I said, "Well, great. Can you ring us up?" She said, "No, it's not my department." It's like, wait a minute. There's, there's a blunder here, right? Right. And so she, she then says, you know, uh, "I'll pass you off to my colleagues." I said, "Well, thank you very much."
And so I go to the colleague, and he was of course very happy to make the sale, 'cause he gets credit for it.
Eric Sinoway: And did nothing.
Bruce Tracey: And did nothing for it. Right. Well, it turns out, he not only did nothing, but when I went home and saw the order, it was the wrong order. They had, he'd input the wrong model. And then, here's, here's where the AI comes into, into play.
So, okay, efficiency. Let's just go online. I'll get that little AI chatbot going, and tell them what my issue is. That was the most frustrating
30 minutes of time, right? I- 'Cause it was un- I didn't get my problem resolved, and it was just- ... you know, this back and forth where I, I had to go to the store, and go in person to rectify the situation that could've been [00:36:00] done easily or re- o- om- omitted from the, you know, policy change in the very beginning.
Eric Sinoway: Are you intentionally bringing us to WIF- uh, service winners and WIFs? 'Cause that is a total WIF.
Bruce Tracey: That is a total WIF. Um-
Eric Sinoway: You tell me ...
Bruce Tracey: perhaps, but let's, let's maybe set this up a little bit differently.
Eric Sinoway: All right.
Bruce Tracey: I think some of it had to do with, the ways in which the organization certainly clearly put up obstacles or impediments to the kind of service experience that somebody may, in my case, idiosyncratically or maybe generally might have.
I think that's an interesting thing is, you know, some of us maybe think of, well, that was a WIF because it didn't serve my needs. Well, maybe my needs were really an outlier. So at least from the organizational lens, let's look at the range in which we respond effectively or serve effectively to those moments, and see if there are ways that we can in fact identify ways to, avoid the kinds of silliness that you see in a lot of circumstances.
So the warnings come from a variety of different inputs. Your guests are telling you because they're not getting the kinds of proper treatment that they expect. Or at least they were promised from the [00:37:00] expectations that are curated by the organizations that are putting those promises out there.
Or there's a technology flaw, or maybe it's just my disposition when I came in the store. I, I, had a bad breakfast. So there's a variety of things that can influence the, uh, inputs that then are used to gauge whether or not there's an issue or not. I think about getting information from guests and customers alike, and seeing how they triangulate.
And there's a lot of research that shows that, you know, and, and this is part of the philosophy piece that I'll mention, to get it right, the rhetoric about the way you prioritize people matters a lot. And so putting the priority on the drivers of that service experience, that hospitality experience, is critical.
And understanding the nexus of that particular influence and the importance thereof will, will give you a lot of, I think, good intel when you're paying attention to how people are reacting, what they know, how they perform on that level, can then influence how organizations are gonna realize it was a good or bad result overall.
Okay. In addition to the, the knowledge bases I mentioned on service experience and the notions of [00:38:00] having, you know, a high degree of general mental ability, how quickly you can learn information, and I would call this uh, EQ on steroids, and really the ability to, regulate yourself in, in reading a room.
There's the behavioral mastery, and a lot of this is, uh, just in time. Uh, sometimes noting when the news on the, in the headlines has not been great, it's tough for me to walk into a classroom and say, "Good morning," 'cause it may not be a good morning.
Eric Sinoway: Mm-hmm.
Bruce Tracey: So that's not an appropriate address in that moment.
So, maybe it's more like, "How's everybody feeling today?" is a more appropriate way of going about it and being more, I would say, attuned to and more acutely aware. And I've blown it so many times in that regard, knowing that I come in maybe with too much exuberance, and it isn't situationally appropriate, and it's easy to miss the mark in those kinds of settings.
So being able to understand how you can adjust your behavior in those moments where, gee, I, I really [00:39:00] misread the room, so let me engage in a little personal service recovery and see if I can adjust so that we can then exchange in ways that are, you know, constructive and useful. So I think a lot of that is, is demonstrated by the acknowledgement. Did I get it right? And if I get the nodding heads in the room, and sometimes you don't get that, so you have to pry a little bit, and that's where I, go back to the notion of being curious. Don't be afraid to ask questions to sometimes not only gain understanding but also validate in, in the moment.
Um, and then sharing what you've learned, and then being able to say that you have some sort of summary understanding, and sharing that understanding so people do what you're doing, which is they're nodding their heads in assent to know that you're on the right track. That's the behavioral cue that the individual who's tried to provide that service follows as a basis for determining if the behaviors they're demonstrating are appropriate.
So, um-
Eric Sinoway: So there's a lot here.
Bruce Tracey: There's a lot there. Yeah. There's a lot there. And sometimes it's a matter of, of noting some fundamentals, whether or not the individual just wants to be listened to- Mm ... or if there's a fix. So I'm very [00:40:00] quick to go to fix. I don't know if that's a gendered thing.
I tend to, you know, listen and then how can I help? When sometimes it's just listening in the moment the most appropriate thing to do and have somebody just vent because they just need to be heard. And I have to get cues on whether or not they want me to, introduce a little hack or some kind of suggestion or information that might be useful in the moment.
But also at the same time, thinking a little bit about the ways in which, you know, you can just hold yourself, and that's the emotional regulation, not jumping too quickly to, you know, a place where you wanna go. Staying in the moment and trying to dictate where that person wants to go is, is part of being that, you know, a sensitive, hospitable person.
Eric Sinoway: So I, I think where we are right now is, you know, first of all, not anti-AI at all. No. Not anti-AI. Definitely not. We work with a, a great guy in a company called RTS, and it's an AI shop all day, and they always start with what problem does it solve and how do we help people?
Yeah. So it's not [00:41:00] anti-AI. It's humans still matter. Within that, there is a universal language that encapsulates much of what you've described today, which is a lot, right? Called hospitality fluency. And what's fascinating to me about it is I, I think it's a universal language largely that, has real value today.
It's rethinking or reframing what is hospitality from an industry to a set of behaviors- Yeah ... and beliefs almost.
Bruce Tracey: Mm-hmm.
Eric Sinoway: And then because we're at a wild time in human history, there is how does all of this come together right now in service delivery?
Bruce Tracey: Yeah.
Eric Sinoway: And I know we've been talking about the idea of service winners because technology's phenomenal.
You know, when does the tech, as you've described, come together and enhance a service experience? And I've got a couple examples. And then when is it just a total whiff? Yeah. And somehow you're left scratching your head thinking, "I don't know who designed this," or, "The damn thing just blew up- Yeah
beyond what I could ever [00:42:00] imagine."
Bruce Tracey: Let's start with the ideal.
Leadership is critically important here. As I mentioned at the onset, if, there's no care and concern at the top You know, forget about it and that care and concern, especially among those who are in charge.
So this is philosophical. And I think a lot about, you know, my own personal experiences in when I park my car in the, in the, uh, garage and make that short walk to Statler Hall, either overtly or subconsciously, I think about, you know, the notion of feeling. How does it feel today? Are my values still aligned with those that I think the, the School of Hotel Administration espouses?
And I'm a lucky person because I can say that most days with an resounding yes, and how good that feels and how lucky I feel 'cause of that. So I think a lot of that is the way in which leaders in the school, college, university celebrate this importance of how we learn, [00:43:00] making sure it's a rigorous, relevant experience, that we're engaged and we build relationships, all the good stuff that comes along with a really high quality educational, and in many cases, service, hospitably service-focused environment, right?
So the leaders, when they care, that really sets the stage for everything else to, fall in line with what you would expect from a really, curated experience. So, uh, the example I use is the Bill Marriott one. , I see his face most every day when I walk through the halls. It's wonderful.
We have a, picture of him to remind us of his importance in the industry, and it always stays with me. You know, take care of the associate, they take care of the guest, and that's a foundational philosophy that Bill Marriott and everybody that's come after him has espoused, and I think that's one of those real, reference points that I, always look to as a basis for saying, "That's how you do it."
You stand up there in front of everybody- ... saying, "This is important." Otherwise, you know-
Eric Sinoway: The rest of it doesn't matter ...
Bruce Tracey: it's just words on a wall. Right. Right?
Eric Sinoway: Right.
Bruce Tracey: The second piece of this is being [00:44:00] intentional, in the way in which you set up your operations, and because of my domain interest and expertise in HR, I think a lot about the hire, train, and retain kinds of decisions.
So you can hire for this. As mentioned, conscientiousness is something you can bake in directly into your selection practices. You don't need to have a big budget to do this. You just have to be clever. Now, you can, spend money on these kinds of things, and there's a lot of wonderful tools out there.
Many of them are AI-generated- or based, that give you good insight on some of those difficult to assess human qualities that are instrumentally important in delivering high levels of, of curated service. So I'm, I'm a big fan of going that route and being able to get information about people and using that to determine, you know, what is most important in certain roles.
in certain roles, there's certain capabilities that are more important than others, so you have to be a little bit more flexible. Right? So jobs, for example, that aren't necessarily that dynamic or that change a whole lot, you don't need to have high levels of, uh, the ability to [00:45:00] acquire new knowledge quickly.
You do need to have the high degrees of conscientiousness consistently throughout because that's gonna be an important determinant of your performance, So we know some are more important at different stages, So we can get all the, that information and create a mosaic of what hospitality looks like, and there's some really nice, measures out there that get at pieces of that.
Eric Sinoway: Yep.
Bruce Tracey: And then once you've got them in your in your fold, now you've got opportunities to help them be curious, right? So we've got wonderful little tools, like I mentioned before, that give people knowledge bases, but then we got opportunities to curate real-time learning as you're going through, uh, you know, your general day, right?
So a lot of time spending in lobbies noticing. Service learning, where you get your teams out working in volunteer places in the community to see what it's like to serve and give back in ways that go beyond the walls of a commercial enterprise. There's so many things firms can do to develop those kinds of, skills and abilities.
And then rewarding for it, right?
Eric Sinoway: Yes. Um, [00:46:00] we promised some examples of winners and whiffs. So, if I may suggest it, let's put more substance, uh, for the next show if these guys are kind enough to-
invite us to do this again. Okay. And perhaps share in practice, you know, some things that work really well, some things that don't. I'll start if I can. You'd given a great example earlier with, with the snowblower. I've made it a habit for years that, um, whenever I come up to Ithaca, the first place I go is to Wegmans.
Uh, Wegmans now, uh, uh, you know, has a large number of- Great
Bruce Tracey: place to work by all accounts ...
Eric Sinoway: and what's interesting is, a large number of self-checkout things.
Bruce Tracey: Yeah.
Eric Sinoway: Okay? So if I'm tired as I was last night, I come up, I check out, not a problem. If there is a problem, there's a couple people there who grab you immediately and help you- And they're
Bruce Tracey: visible
Eric Sinoway: too
They're visible, they're hospitable, they're eager to help. Not a problem. Okay? So to me that- that's a great interaction of hospitality, fluency, and technology. I'll name this other example by name even though you're trying to be more gentle [00:47:00] and anonymous than I am. Uh, I contrast that experience with, uh, a trip to Target, near our home a, week ago or so with my 15-year-old and his friend.
They were excited. They had their own money. They went to check out. They went into one of those lines, and the machines don't take cash. Okay. We sort of all know that. Like, they made a mistake. They're kids. Fine. They look up and every other line that would have a human is closed So we're now in Target, and they can't purchase anything because they're 15-year-old boys, and they have cash, and I wanted them to use their own money.
And, like, who in that store or at Target, as you said, was so intent on pushing costs down that either they had no humans or they perhaps had one person who had to run to the restroom or take a break. But to literally have a customer there who cannot give you his or her money in order to purchase a product from your store, to me was an absolute service whiff beyond comprehension.
Bruce Tracey: Yeah, the, the question that I think fundamentally that wasn't answered is what happens if the technology fails, right?
Eric Sinoway: [00:48:00] Fair enough.
Bruce Tracey: And it's gonna. Uh- It's not a matter of if.
Eric Sinoway: Right.
Bruce Tracey: So that contingency obviously was not front and center in the decision because-
Eric Sinoway: That was gentle.
Bruce Tracey: Yeah. Thank you.
Eric Sinoway: Sure.
Bruce Tracey: 'Cause I think there are a couple dynamics here, and I'm gonna forgive Target because, you know, labor challenges right now are, are extremely acute.
Eric Sinoway: Sure.
Bruce Tracey: And who wants to go work in frontline service roles? It's a very tough sell, right? Especially given, some of the things that we all see day to day. It's not a, a very attractive or compelling place to work.
So this is ... You know, if I can be a little bit prescriptive in this regard- Sure ... let's not accept the way that we have designed work as the way we should be designing work. Again, we're trying to make it easy for the people. We've made it easy for the people on the frontline to do it, but is that what the guest needs or wants?
And this is where we have to back up here, and we were talking about earlier.
Eric Sinoway: Yeah, I love this.
Bruce Tracey: Right? HR people tend to think- Right ... a little bit too much about the employee and the employee value proposition, the employee gig, right? Without knowing that the employee gig is influenced by what the guest does or does not want, and what needs to happen to get the guest [00:49:00] what they need or don't need, right?
Eric Sinoway: Y- yeah, as we were discussing earlier, I love this. I mean, a- again, just to go back to Howard Stevenson at, at HBS, you know, he redefined the field of entrepreneurship By saying that it is opportunity-led. It's not what are the resources you have, it's what's the opportunity and how do I go pursue it, even if I don't have the resources?
This, I think, uh, we've lost the idea of what does the customer want?
Bruce Tracey: Mm-hmm.
Eric Sinoway: We're often enthralled by what the whizzbang technology can do, what the quarterly earnings pressure is, perhaps what we care about the employee, which I'm not diminishing. But, like, it's a very simple question. Like, what does the employee want?
And my guess is more often than not, they actually will pay for it.
Bruce Tracey: Yeah. I think a lot about just some basic kinds of things that we can do- Yeah ... to make work a lot more compelling. I, I noted we've, kinda defined work in very narrow terms to make it easy for anybody. So the barriers to entry are- Yep
are low on a, from an employment standpoint. That's [00:50:00] good and bad, right? If you want service to be elevated, then that's not gonna be a recipe that's gonna get you there. And I, I think about, okay, well, maybe that's something that really smart, motivated people can do, but I'm sure they're bringing a lot more to the table that we could exploit, and exploit positively.
And I think about flexible job designs, knowing, for example who likes to schedule? Yeah, nobody, but thankfully, there's an app for that. Mm. So we've got tools that we can use, and being thoughtful and deploying them in the appropriate way so that that human can engage in work that has more meaning, more value, not to the individual who's ex- executing, but for the guest who's, who's the reason why you're there commercially.
Eric Sinoway: Right.
Bruce Tracey: And so consequently, I think a lot about the ways in which we derive what we do, not from the tasks that we've already defined, but from the ways in which we're sort of imagining service to be and look like. And I think a l- a lot about in my, you know, given my age, is my view of service maybe [00:51:00] antiquated.
And maybe I, what we're talking about is fluency- Mm ... being super relevant in some contexts, and less so in other contexts.
Eric Sinoway: That's right.
Bruce Tracey: I would, I would say that depending on the service concept, the importance of hospitality, the human component of that, will vary. Mm. Right? And we mentioned, you know, there may be differences, again, across price point or service complexity that would then, determine the extent to which hospitality fluency is a premium, therefore how much weight it gets, uh, in those kinds of unique or idiosyncratic kinds of settings.
So I think some of it is thinking of not anymore just purposely in general, but based on what you're trying to accomplish here with the guest in mind, and guest-driving a lot of decision-making. That gives you the license to say, how can we go out and, and design a service experience, a hospitality experience, where people can go in and, and really create those memorable connections?
Eric Sinoway: In any industry.
Bruce Tracey: In any industry that you can imagine. Doesn't matter. wherever there's a human being. That's really the bottom [00:52:00] line.
Eric Sinoway: I think that's powerfully said.
Dave Keslick: Thank you for listening to Cornell Keynotes. For more information about this subject, check the episode notes for details and enrollment information. For future Cornell Keynotes, subscribe to stay connected. Thank you for listening