Looking for a funkier flavor in your next wine selection? In this debut episode of the Cornell Keynotes podcast, global wine expert and Senior Lecturer Cheryl Stanley from the Cornell Nolan School of Hotel Administration joins host Chris Wofford to discuss – and taste – natural wines you’ll have to try.
Dive into the unfined and unfiltered world of natural wines. Cheryl Stanley, global wine expert and senior lecturer at the Cornell Nolan School of Hotel Administration, joins host Chris Wofford to explore the scrubbing bubbles, oxidized apples and sediment in a variety of wines, from pétillant naturel to orange to Beaujolais.
This debut episode of the Cornell Keynotes podcast covers a range of topics, including:
Learn more in Cheryl Stanley’s eCornell certificate programs:
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Chris Wofford: Welcome, everyone. Today, we're going to be popping some corks and talking about natural wines. I'm Chris Wofford.
Cheryl Stanley: I'm Cheryl Stanley.
Chris Wofford: Cheryl Stanley is a lecturer at the Nolan School of Hotel Administration. She's also, of course, author of several unlike versus Unwind that we will be talking about later as we get into it. So natural wines is the topic today. Cheryl, why are they trending? What's going on out there?
Cheryl Stanley: My gosh, Chris. Wow. Well, they’re unique they're different. They create an experience, whether it's good or bad. That's all in the eye of the person enjoying the wines. And I think it's as as people discover and and go begin their wine journey. They're curious and they want to try so many different wines and these natural wines and I use air quotes.
Cheryl Stanley: Yeah, these are natural wines are an extension of that curiosity.
Chris Wofford: What is natural wine? Tough to define.
Cheryl Stanley: Yes. I had to write some notes down because I needed to stay on topic. Because natural wines is a huge conversation in the wine industry right now. Because all wine is natural. Right. Wine was not is not created by humans. We certainly there is human contact, but it is a natural product created by Mother Nature. And Dr. Patrick McGovern from upended an amazing wrote an amazing book all about the history of wine and natural product.
Cheryl Stanley: But I like to I want to actually read the Oxford Companion of Wine Definition of Natural Wine, because that is really like one of the wine Bibles of the wine world. Grapes are typically grown by small scale independent producers. Grapes are hand-picked from sustainable, organic or biodynamic vineyards. So going into the farming practices. Wine is fermented with no added yeast, i.e. native yeast.
Cheryl Stanley: No additives are included in fermentation, such as neat yeast nutrients and little to no sulfites are added. And it's interesting because when I started learning about natural wines, it was just no sulfur added. That was what was considered a natural wine. And now there's so much more that kind of get grouped into this natural wine category.
Chris Wofford
And just to back up real quick, so what are sulfites do for wine?
Cheryl Stanley
Sulfites are an anti microbial, so they will kill off any unwanted bacteria and they can be added at different times during the winemaking process. So it could be added in the very beginning when when the grapes are coming in to kill any yeast that's on the outside of the grape skins. Or it could be added during the firmin fermentation process.
Cheryl Stanley
Further along in the method of production, it can also stop fermentation leaving residual sugar.
Chris Wofford
What about the variability of those native yeasts? That's a that's a that's a big variable. It potentially.
Cheryl Stanley
Well, potentially, yes, because some native yeast can't handle higher alcohol. So they, you know, die off at 5%. And then you have what is oftentimes considered stuck fermentation. When we think about styles of natural wine, one of these styles is good glue, kind of sounds like glug glug out of the bottle. And those are specifically low alcohol wines, traditionally red.
Cheryl Stanley
Now they're white rosé, orange, color of the rainbow kind of thing. But they're they're lower alcohol wines. And so, you know, and this is where it gets into human human intervention and winemaker intervention in the winemaking process. Traditionally, people say or talk about more commercially made wines. A winemaker might add certain yeast strains, whereas these native yeast would be just au natural or even what's in the winery within the winery that can can take part in it just in the air that you breathe.
Chris Wofford
What else about process and production is involved? Labor intensive, really. I'm thinking about cost of operation. You know, if you've got a relative hands up, hands off approach, you would think this is economical to produce or is it quite the opposite? Is it a little more challenging because of that?
Cheryl Stanley I think it depends. No black or white answer. Got it. With hand harvesting, that definitely is labor intensive and where you are in the world will increase that. If you take if you are a natural wine producer and you take the hands off, no intervention, even in the vineyard, that can cause challenges because say, for example, you get mold now with sustainable practices, organics and biodynamic farming techniques which have very strict rules and not sustainable, but organic and biodynamic have very strict farming techniques that can The winemaker has some options to use if they follow those.
Chris Wofford
That's right. By biodynamics, very labor intensive. There's a whole process with the, you know, microbial management is its own thing just alone.
Cheryl Stanley
Yes, it is very labor intensive and it takes a lot of knowledge in order to do it correctly. Also documentation, too.
Chris Wofford
Great. Let's talk about styles. Let's talk about output. We're doing a tasting today. We've got five different wines, a little bit all over the place, but in the best way. Let's talk about broadly for the uninitiated, how do we think about the styles of natural wine?
Cheryl Stanley
Sure. Well, and this is what's fun, but also can be challenging for a consumer is since there is no government definition, what is a natural wine and we already talked about that but. WCT The Wine Spirits Education Trust referred natural wine as an ethos, you know, from the winemaker. But now we're looking in the market even subcategories those low alcohol, you know, often times referred to as juicy wines that you can drink easily.
Cheryl Stanley
They're not high tannin, usually high acid and oftentimes made using carbonic maceration. And then you have the orange skin contact slash amber and that's where to where you are in the world will be. You know, a winemaker will use a certain term over another orange wine here in the United States. We know that that has been skin contact in my Jesse skin contact on the label.
Cheryl Stanley
It might say remoter so for Italy and you know, all of that knowing or amber we have to think about amber to having the juice sit on the skins, extracting color and then we also have pet Nats. And that's going to be really fun because we're trying to different pet Nats patio natural.
Chris Wofford
What is that about?
Cheryl Stanley
So that is the ancestral method and the ancestral method has been around for hundreds of years in.
Chris Wofford
Production of champagne bubbles with bubbles.
Cheryl Stanley
Okay, Bubbles. It's bottling the wine while it's going through fermentation. And some producers will disgorged that yeast at the end, others will not. And so that's why sometimes you'll get some funky chunks down in the bottom of the bottle.
Chris Wofford
Yeah, prices are a little bit pricey. So you'll see as we go through each of these wines, once we dig in the cost of these, these are at minimal $25 a bottle or thereabouts. And I'd ask you, is is there any opportunity for bargain wines, everyday sugars? And the answer was sort of.
Cheryl Stanley
Sort of very, I should say, more challenging to find that in the market. I've seen a couple for $12, but very, very few. If you're in Europe, of course, the pricing will be different. Even here in the United States, different states have different tax laws, so you can find various price points. But exactly as you encountered at the cellar door, you're talking $25 and up, you know, even $100.
Cheryl Stanley
And really it's it's supply and demand. There is a high demand for these wines, especially at, you know, wine bars or I mean, you go to restaurants and it's we only serve natural wines, very curated list. And because of that, you'll find some that are over 100.
Chris Wofford
What do you think about digging into some of these? Let's go through in sequence and do some tasting so we have wine. Number one is that she mean the best but you how's my pronunciation there and yeah yeah okay. Not bad.
Cheryl Stanley
Well and this wine is is fun. Well just look looking at the glasses themselves and this is when for for those of you who are going to be trying these wines at another time or tasting them along with us, you see, we're so used to that brilliant color of wine where it's super reflective. You have the blind tasting standard, you know, star bright.
Cheryl Stanley
These are not star bright.
Chris Wofford
Now it is. You can't see completely through any of these, right?
Cheryl Stanley
Really? And this is where as a consumer, it can be challenging because if you don't know that this is in that natural wine category, you pick up the bottle and you're like, Something's wrong here, so something's going on. But this is just a stylistic preference of the the winery. And this is this is fun. This wine is specifically from the Languedoc-roussillon area.
Chris Wofford
What kind of grapes are in this.
Cheryl Stanley
Viognier and on, I believe from the importers website and again, bottle during fermentation. But oftentimes you'll see with pet Nats that they're not cork closed, they're actually closed with a crown cap. Crown caps. Are they recyclable? No. Are they sustainable? Not as much, you know, but a cork might not necessarily be able to handle.
Chris Wofford
Okay. I was going to I was going to say it's about right. Efficacy in working.
Cheryl Stanley
Exactly.
Chris Wofford
Keeping the wine in the bottle.
Cheryl Stanley
Exactly. And keeping the bubbles. I mean, when you're buying a pet, not you want a wine with bubbles, which is going to give it texture as well as you have some texture from the and fine unfiltered.
Chris Wofford
All right. Let's give this one a taste. Let me know what you think.
Cheryl Stanley
Well, it's it's fun because when we opened up the initial bottle, the bubbles were present, but they weren't out of control. And you'll see this if you drink a lot of pet gnats, that the bubble situation can vary based off of the amount of sugar in the wine. The method of production disgorging and whatnot. Okay. Well, cheers.
Chris Wofford
Cheers, Cheryl
Cheryl Stanley
okay color and having it be unfiltered aside, I get some kind of apple skin. There is oxidized apple a little bit.
Chris Wofford
Yes.
Cheryl Stanley
But also you get some peach and floral notes, you know, knowing Viognier and Bruce on Viognier being a very aromatic grape variety, not getting as much of that intense white flower as I would assume from other wines. But that's okay.
Chris Wofford
How would you talk about the acidity in this wine? How would you describe it?
Cheryl Stanley
I would say acidity is medium, but it has scrubbing bubbles. And with that carbon dioxide, the carbon dioxide cleanses your palate. This wine would be a really fun wine to pair with food, and you can up the intensity of the food because this wine has a lot of texture. Do you like it?
Chris Wofford
I like it quite a bit. The oxidized apples and thing that's really just sticking with me. That's exactly what it is.
Cheryl Stanley
Yeah, but me and some people think I'm a little weird with my apples, but it's not Granny Smith, It's not green apple. No, it is. And it's not necessarily even red. Delicious. It's more of like a gala Honeycrisp pine. There is a ripeness to fruit and but that makes complete sense from the growing region too. But this wine and this is where, you know, you think about the different certification bodies like Court of Master Sommeliers or wine, spirits, education, trust.
Cheryl Stanley
And you're blind tasting wine, you're evaluated in the site, and you're also saying, does it smell clean, does it smell faulty? And some natural wine producers tend to lean towards the what is perceived in the mass wine world as false. But then it's not a fault. It adds character to their wine. And this wine, I think, is fairly clean.
Cheryl Stanley
You're getting that fruit to it. Okay. The sound again, you know, this is why, you know, when I go when I taste wine, sometimes it has a little bit of strawberry shortcake plastic doll. No to it.
Chris Wofford
I know the doll.
Cheryl Stanley
But then, like caribou candies. But the wine is dry, the aromatics are so ripe. And I think the carbon dioxide in the wine is also allowing those aromatics to come out without having to give it a big swirl.
Chris Wofford
It's lovely, really enjoyable. So, you know, at first blush, OJ paired with this.
Cheryl Stanley
A bean stew.
Chris Wofford
there you go. Yeah.
Cheryl Stanley
Yeah, I you know something with a little bit of of heartiness to it, but not overpowering.
Chris Wofford
Right. And they're not going to find each other.
Cheryl Stanley
Know exactly.
Chris Wofford
What we're talking.
Cheryl Stanley
About. They're going to complement between the bodies and the, the sparkling, the carbon dioxide in the wine. I think it would just it would be really good.
Chris Wofford
All right. Let's keep things brisk.
Cheryl Stanley
Okay.
Chris Wofford
Let's hit number two. The second wine is called McCurry Sparkling Horse's Cabernet franc Cab. Franc did not make our list for recommended bottles that people should buy. But nevertheless, Cellar Door said, You must try this because it fits the bill. And it would be really interesting.
Cheryl Stanley
Well, and I think it's another wonderful expression of a pet. Nat Yeah. So this pet, Nat, was cloudy, whereas this pet Nat is not so beautiful. Rosé Exactly. And it's, it's that wonderful kind of dark salmon color. And one thing I'd like to make note are the bubbles. The bubbles are much higher. There's much more carbon dioxide in this wine.
Cheryl Stanley
Yep. And what's fun to about rosy pet Nats? You know you just see between these two wines various spectrum a various spectrum of cloudy to clear and brilliant and pet Nat is more in reference to the method of production.
Chris Wofford
This looks like a sparkling rosé.
Cheryl Stanley
Yeah, exactly. And it smells like one too. It has that bright, juicy red cherry and strawberry and something that's different or makes these wines unique is you're not looking for that secondary from well, you have some secondary fermentation in the bottle, but it's not like a traditional method wine, like champagne or cava, where you have that yeasty development.
Cheryl Stanley
Here you don't have that yeasty ness. It's not as pronounced that brioche cracker like note that you would find in the wine's.
Chris Wofford
Bubbles still hanging out. Yeah. Yeah.
Cheryl Stanley
So exactly.
Chris Wofford
Serious action going on there.
Cheryl Stanley
And so this is a wine, too. Something to consider when you're buying pet. Nat is supply chain and keeping it cold throughout the supply chain. They ship it cold and sometimes it'll even say that on the bottle is to make sure that you keep it cold. Don't put it in your cellar. Don't let it warm up to room temperature.
Cheryl Stanley
You get it home, you put it in the fridge.
Chris Wofford
There you go. Really good advice. Smart advice. I wouldn't have known to do that. So with your pet Nats, keep them in the fridge right out of the case when you bring it home. This one's lovely too. We're locking out. It is. This is a pretty good tasting so far.
Cheryl Stanley
Well, and you think about cabernet franc as a grape variety. Yeah. And it's so perfect in the Finger Lakes, one of our signature red grape varieties. And same thing with from Long Island as well. You get a little bit of texture and tannin from this wine, so you got bubbles, but you also have tannin so you can do some really fun.
Cheryl Stanley
Like as we're approaching summer barbecue with this wine would be beautiful. Some nice grilled chicken, nothing too spicy unless you really wanted to, but I don't do spice. Nothing too.
Chris Wofford
Okay.
Cheryl Stanley
But that's why I just think it's it's really it's really enjoyable.
Chris Wofford
Just to reiterate this from the North Fork of Long Island. Right? So this is a temperate oceanic type area that's very much different from here. You know, we're several hundred feet higher up in the woods.
Cheryl Stanley
Yes. But they have a longer growing season. Got it down on Long Island. So that's why you see more cabernet sauvignon, Merlot and cabernet franc being grown there because of those extended growing days.
Chris Wofford
Perfect, lovely wine moving right along. Yes. What's next? Okay, so this is the Christian Banner Arrows de Raffaele Pirouette. What are we getting into here?
Cheryl Stanley
Look at this color. Yeah, look at the color. And we were talking a little bit about this beforehand. Where would a restauranteur put this on the wine list? Is this a white wine? Yeah. Is it a rosé? It's really in the orange wine category. And what some restaurant tours have done is kind of grouped these with rosé is because if a guest ordered this and wasn't familiar with the wine and were expecting a white wine, they would look at it and be like, No.
Chris Wofford
This looks like red grapefruit juice, right?
Cheryl Stanley
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. But we also noticed that it is very cloudy. This wine is also unrefined, unfiltered and looking at the wine, it's Pinot Gris, Riesling and Silvana. So grape varieties that we so much associate with white wines. Now, Pinot Gris is a great variety that does like to mutate, and you will find Pinot Gris around the world that have a pinkish reddish hued skin.
Cheryl Stanley
And so this wine has done 25 days of skin contact, and that's where we're getting the color from. But then also aged on Lees for eight months and aging on Lees for eight months. It's not crazy. We see Sauvignon Blanc and Mousquetaires from the La Valley being aged on Lees for that long as well. So the differentiator in this wine is really the skin contact for 25 days.
Chris Wofford
This is the wine that was supposed to line up with the Pinot Grigio over Martell. Right. The Italian I just had that fairly recently. Last year was the first time I kind of had those, those Pinot Grigio that are a little off orange and they're delicious.
Cheryl Stanley
And isn't it fun because they add texture? Yes, because often and I don't want to say there are some Pinot grigio in the market that tastes like water. Yes. They have no character. And with that Romano, it just ups the character a little bit to make it really like, wait, what's going on in this wine and beautiful with fish?
Chris Wofford
This one's got a heck of a nose.
Cheryl Stanley
Peach skin. Yeah, I mean, dry peach skin, orange peel. And I think what's so important to note on the palate is the texture of this wine.
Chris Wofford
Yep. Not very acidic, not very biting. It doesn't really hit you too hard. It's laying off actually quite a bit.
Cheryl Stanley
But it has the it's what's funny is the acidity is kind of competing against that tannin you're getting from the grape skins. And oftentimes you'll say, well, white wines don't have tannin. They can in this case. And I mean, of course they can get it from from more tannin as well. You think about drinking a rosé. A rosé has that texture and tannin.
Cheryl Stanley
And this is just a white wine that has texture and tannins.
Chris Wofford
We talk about where this is from in France. Do we know?
Cheryl Stanley
this wine is from Alsace.
Chris Wofford
Okay. So there we go, mountainous eastern France.
Cheryl Stanley
Yes, eastern France, longer growing season, drier area. So the fruit can get really right here, but still maintain their acidity because of the northern LA climate.
Chris Wofford
So other wines that we might associate with Alsace would be the pinot block is growing up there.
Cheryl Stanley
Riesling, Pinot Blanc, Rieslings, diverse demeanors, always fan favorites. I love Coeur Mont Alsace, which is a sparkling wine made in the traditional method. Delicious.
Chris Wofford
Right on the money.
Cheryl Stanley
Yeah. And this is a fun because it's an association of wine. Perdue, a wine grower. Winegrowers, as they call themselves. But grape growers and winemakers that have come together to make many, many different styles of wine from the area.
Chris Wofford
This one was lovely.
Cheryl Stanley
And also zero sulfur kind of going back to how people associate natural wines starting very, very much hands off.
Chris Wofford
It's lovely. Next we, we take a detour to Italy. Il Chen So Catturato what's, what's going on with this wine?
Cheryl Stanley
This wine is even more orange than it's the Alsace.
Chris Wofford
It's iridescent.
Cheryl Stanley
Yes. Yep. The Alsatian wine is kind of like a peachy cloudy. This is like spot on orange. And I think what's also important to note is when we opened up the bottle, there were there was a lot of sediment in the wine.
Chris Wofford
yeah. Visible. Looking through this one little, little.
Cheryl Stanley
Chunks.
Chris Wofford
That. A little dark. Dark chunks. Yeah. Suspended.
Cheryl Stanley
So if you know that you're, you know, expecting that in the wine, great. That's fine Again adds a little bit of texture or if you're poor to the wine and you're not expecting it, you're like, what is this? Yeah. And that's, you know, education. It's education of the people selling in the retail stores, the distributors, Everyone needs to be educated in order to properly in well and no, not necessarily properly enjoy the wine but may manage expectations.
Chris Wofford
I think so too. Right. It might be a little much to say that wine sellers should issue a caveat with some of these, but frankly, they kind of should.
Cheryl Stanley
Yeah, and there's there's no requirements from labeling.
Chris Wofford
Right.
Cheryl Stanley
Right. So it's it's dealing with what you see in the bottle and with some natural wine producers looking at alternative packaging like bag in a box, you can actually see the wine. So you wouldn't know that it had skin contact or it was unfiltered and having, you know, sediment.
Chris Wofford
At the bottom. What do you think of this one? Well, let's check it out.
Cheryl Stanley
I mean, Colorado, as a grape variety, produces full bodied, fair, you know, not overly intense, fairly medium intensity aromatics, even to, you know, some people even describe it as low used in marsala production. But it is making that great variety is making some really interesting white wines from Sicily. And we see being blended with Grillo or Chardonnay as well.
Cheryl Stanley
But this one has a little bit more earthiness on it. And we haven't even talked about Brettanomyces in.
Chris Wofford
You're not.
Cheryl Stanley
Quite.
Chris Wofford
Early yet, so tell us a bit about Brett.
Cheryl Stanley
Brett Yes, this is a wine that again, depending on where how much Brettanomyces is in a wine can be seen as adding a little bit of complexity or can be a straight fault once a winery is infected with Brett. Very, very hard to get out, but some producers like some cider producers, love Return of Mrs. in their Wine and Brettanomyces.
Cheryl Stanley
What It's sweaty horse.
Chris Wofford
Yeah.
Cheryl Stanley
Barnyard Barnyard often described for those of you that are old enough to remember the metal boxes for like Band-Aids or adhesive bandages, that it gets that rubbery smell. But this one has dried orange peel like there is a a dried fruit character. While this wine is young, it's not described as like fresh. There is a little bit of a dried, dried note to it.
Chris Wofford
You know, like the dry garnishes at a bar, you get a little that it's kind of like that orange that you get and you're not supposed to bloody.
Cheryl Stanley
But even like a smoked, you know, some cocktail bars are taking it dehydrating the oranges and then smoking it. Sure. Yeah.
Chris Wofford
I'm a little bit more challenged by this one than maybe the others. Yes. You know, I want to like it, but I'm not sure I'm there.
Cheryl Stanley
It's not as forthcoming in the glass.
Chris Wofford
But the fruitiness. How would you.
Cheryl Stanley
I mean, it doesn't have much, you know, at all. Right.
Chris Wofford
Okay.
Cheryl Stanley
Yeah. And that's why I went down that dried orange peel note. Yeah, because you don't get a lot of fruit from this. It's.
Chris Wofford
Where did it go? Like in the process, you know, How do you end up here? Right.
Cheryl Stanley
Well, skin contact, aging.
Chris Wofford
That's the thing, right? Yeah. The skin cancer.
Cheryl Stanley
And this is a 2021. sorry, 2019. So it has a little bit of a way to do it.
Chris Wofford
Right. Speaking of aging, we talked about this a little bit. You were talking about, you know, whether to cellar or how to store it. But what about the relative age? I mean, we've got some that are the oldest one. Is this one, right? Yeah. So you only have a few years, right, with these.
Cheryl Stanley I would say one to 1 to 3 years.
Chris Wofford Okay.
Cheryl Stanley Yeah. As you think about how a wine evolves, you know, you have the fresh fruit and then the secondary, those earthy characters and then tertiary. So yeah, it's on your oftentimes. Well, not oftentimes. There are some natural wines that start much more earthy and so you don't have the fruit character in it gets covered up because of the method of production.
Cheryl Stanley
Or if, say, for example, pretend Mrs. Perfect.
Chris Wofford
You were a CERT author for several online courses related to a lot of what we're talking about here Wines of Italy, Wines of France, and Wines of the Worlds. Tell us a little bit about what's involved in the creation of those courses, what your desired outcomes and objectives are for the learners and people who are with us today.
Cheryl Stanley
Really to go on a wine journey that lasts a lifetime. You know, something about wine is that every year is different, every vintage is different. So and there's so much to learn about, and it can really bring people together, whether it's learning the material to do business deals, learning the material, because it's just something that you are truly passionate about.
Cheryl Stanley
I think it's it's so much fun and you get you know, we talk culture, we talk food and wine pairing and then of course, and how the classes are structured too, with the second course being hosting an event of some sort where again, it's bringing people together to enjoy. And I think that's so important and life perfect.
Chris Wofford
I've always admired your instruction style. Thank you. It's great. I just love spending time with you as is also the case. Okay, let's get back to France. We're going to deal with the Beaujolais. Now, this is a what it's considered a true Beaujolais. It's called slurry. What do we know about Fleury?
Cheryl Stanley
Fleury is one of the ten crew Beaujolais. Okay. And Chris, you and I love Beaujolais.
Chris Wofford
They make grapes gamay grape.
Cheryl Stanley
And so many people write off Beaujolais because they think of Beaujolais Nouveau. And while, hey, I'm all the way, I'm all about celebrating Beaujolais Nouveau and the first harvest of the Northern Hemisphere every year. Once it comes out, it's always at my Thanksgiving table because it tastes like liquid cranberry juice. CRU Beaujolais have a potential. They are complex wines and not all CRU Beaujolais are natural.
Cheryl Stanley
And this is where the producers are so important to understand which wines are more traditional and which wines are under this natural wine movement. The reason why is is partly because of method of production. We talk carbonic maceration. Carbonic maceration is how Beaujolais nouveau is made. That's the fermentation is so fast. That's how I can get released in November when it's harvested in September.
Cheryl Stanley
But with the natural it's it's hands off, it's whole cluster, including the stems, including the seeds, the skins, literally just putting in a tank, putting some carbon dioxide in there, having the bottom grapes, you know, break, release their juice, start to ferment, and then you have intercellular fermentation going on as well. And they can be some producers like a little bit of and I'm just going to say it funk to their wines and that's great in various amounts, you know and then some are much cleaner, some producers are much cleaner.
Cheryl Stanley
Again, all based off of the stylistic preference.
Chris Wofford
Let's check out this literature color wise.
Cheryl Stanley
This wine. No sulfur in this wine?
Chris Wofford No.
Cheryl Stanley
Or I should excuse me. Minimal. So far sulfur, but half of it's done in carbonic maceration to keep it really fruity. And this goes to that glue. Glue style. We see this even being done in Spain where some producers are making tempranillo or Granata with carbonic maceration to keep the alcohol levels low, to make it really juicy and fruity and an easy drinking.
Cheryl Stanley
And then they'll have the oak aged as well as an extension in their portfolio.
Chris Wofford
So this one runs at three tables in New York at 2499. I think you can spend a lot of money on a crew. Beaujolais Yeah, no.
Cheryl Stanley
I mean, it depends.
Chris Wofford
We can hit $60.
Cheryl Stanley
Yes, but I think 25 is a very fair price.
Chris Wofford
Yeah. Okay.
Cheryl Stanley
We're still getting the cranberry, but it's not as juicy cranberry. It's more of a dark cherry. Hey, no influence of of oak, but getting some of that whole cluster influence.
Chris Wofford
I'm not feeling the funk in this one. No, no, no.
Cheryl Stanley
It is clean. But again, this is still considered a natural wine because of the minimal amounts of sulfur that's been used.
Chris Wofford
Delicious tannins, right on nice and dry. That's a pretty wine.
Cheryl Stanley
But still with beautiful acidity where the tannin gives it a little bit of texture and you're still looking for the the components of the wine to be there. And I think that's important. With all natural wines. You still want acid, you still want tannin or texture of some sort to bring in the whole picture, make it a very balanced wine.
Chris Wofford
So that does it for our tasting. This has been fun.
Cheryl Stanley
It has been.
Chris Wofford
I've learned a good deal. Any any parting words for those who are getting ready to explore the world of natural wine?
Cheryl Stanley
Don't be afraid to ask and do research. This is where I have had conversations with people in the wine world that say natural wines are better than all of the other wines. I tend to disagree. I think natural wines is a stylistic preference of the winemaker. And just like some winemakers use 100% new oak and some winemakers only use 50% new oak, you as a consumer, being able and knowledgeable enough and comfortable and confident enough to ask those types of questions to the retailer, to your sommelier to find the best wine that's right for you at the at the right occasion.
Chris Wofford
Again, no mainstream appeal here probably will never be the case. You have to be an active participant effectively to to to enjoy these and make the right decisions around them.
Cheryl Stanley
Right. And these these all are wonderful. I mean, especially the pet Nats. Good good ones to to kind of start to experience the category 680 cellars here in the Finger Lakes. They also have a lot of really interesting pet Nats of different grape varieties that you might not necessarily know. You know the orange wines just going into them knowing, okay, this wine is going to be different.
Cheryl Stanley
This is not going to be a pino Gary. And just approaching the wine with an open mind and then exploring reds, very different types of reds along with the carbonic maceration or and if you get wine that has a little bit of Brett if you like it, great. If you don't okay just know that you don't like that style.
Cheryl Stanley
But something to note in terms of service is going from a wine that's very bready, breathy, bready, breathy, and then going to a wine that does not have Brett. It could influence your perception of the next wine. So you need to have some sort of cleanse in between and reusing a glass from a bready wine to a non bready wine, it will contaminate the glass.
Chris Wofford
Good to know. Good advice. Hey, we're doing this again next week. We have a podcast next week where we're doing appellations designations and geographical indications and new wine laws.
Cheryl Stanley
It is going to be so much fun to talk about what's going on in the wine world because things are changing.
Chris Wofford
That's right. Thanks for joining us, everyone. This has been a lovely tasting. Cheryl Stanley, as always, a pleasure to have you.
Cheryl Stanley
And thank you, Chris.
Chris Wofford
See you next time. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe so you don't miss new episodes as they are released wherever you listen to podcasts. To learn more about wines from all over the world, check out the episode notes for more information on Cheryl Stanley Stack of Online Certificate Programs on Wine. Thank you for listening.